Re: Ask the 2+2 Ladies Your Questions
 

Thanks Katy & entertainme!

I done us 'girls' good! An annual (all male) 2+2 tournament and they invited me!... silly guys [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]! 37 men and a mermaid.
Was cool to meet some other 2+2ers from all over New England...

A couple of Lounge posters were playing too like dcasper, Myrtle & hyde. All great guys!
Afraid I bruised some male ego's... what's up with that dudes???!!

Re: Ask the 2+2 Ladies Your Questions
 

oh grats!

Pm me or Katy if you want an undertitle change, you've earned it!

Re: Ask the 2+2 Ladies Your Questions
 

[ QUOTE ]
VR, that is what I thought, which is why I found the "too old" remark a bit odd... could you elaborate on why you think you are "too old for MOST of this kind of stuff to apply to me"?

Are you saying you reach an age where you no longer think about what you like or don't like in a man?


[/ QUOTE ]

No, not at all. In fact, it kind of spins off into a question I was going to ask katy after her honest and thoughtful post. (BTW, katy, don't take any crap for that post, that was a good self-analysis, which I think most people would be scared to do.)

In any case, what I wanted to ask katy was: are these things you CURRENTLY find to be true, or are they things you find to be true based on past experiences?

After the experiences that my friends and I have had, I had concluded that we generally grow out of the "I like him, but he's not attractive," and the "I hate that, but omg he is so sexy" stage. It usually happens about the same time our friends (good friends not "surface" friends) stop hating the guys we date.

Really, for me and for most of the women I know, we decided at some point that dating men that were distant/unpredictable/blow hot and cold/don't want to listen to us/very incompatible was no longer fun and they were no longer attractive.

I have generally preferred to date nice normal guys, so I don't have a LOT of horror stories, but the ones I do have typically involve men with hot tempers or men that were distant. The first is probably classically Freudian...my father has a terrible temper and would at any given time turn bright red and scream obscenities at my mom and me growing up. I spent a fair amount of time trying to appease guys with similar tempers. Trying to relate to the "distant" type is so dramatic and gave me so much to dissect and analyze with my girlfriends. We could talk for hours about what the fact that he held my hand at dinner but then didn't call for 4 days meant. (Dear Lord, I was an idiot!) By the way, I think that this is very common among those that are immature. Almost every woman I know got burned at some point by the allure of the distant guy.

Part of dating is learning to filter for the things you don't want...the things that may seem intriguing, but actually suck. I learned that men that talk about how much they love you but don't back it up with loving actions are worthless. I learned that distant guys take entirely too much time and energy for too little reward. (Shortly after college I landed a job that was 60+ hours per week. If I didn't know EXACTLY how much he wanted to be with me, there was no freaking way I was sandwiching someone into that schedule.)

It wasn't even a question of, "oh, that guy is so attractive...wait, I'm doing it again...he's being distant...ugh." I outgrew that. So did most of the women that I know. I do know two that haven't, but I don't think they would be able to answer AJ's question...because they wouldn't be able to think in those terms.

So, yes, I absolutely still think about what I find attractive. But really, what I find most attractive (both what makes me think someone is attractive when I FIRST meet him, and what makes me fall really really hard for him) is:

1. Someone who is kind.
2. Someone who is respectful.
3. Someone I can talk to about serious things and still be silly with.
4. Someone who takes good care of himself: doesn't smoke, doesn't drink too much, eats healthfully. Someone who is working on taking better care of himself is ok too.
5. Someone with a beautiful smile (btw, the smile in the pic is a 10).
6. Someone with a round butt.
7. Someone with a sarcastic sense of humor...but that never leaves me wondering if there is meanness behind the sarcasm.
8. Someone that makes me feel precious.
9. Someone that is intelligent, and shows respect for MY intelligence.
10. Someone that is adventurous (no, going over Niagara Falls in a barrel is not required...someone who is willing to try new things and go new places).
11. Someone that is open-minded and thinks other people should be able to live as they choose.
12. Someone that wants to listen to me when I have a problem and hold me when I'm upset.

In all seriousness, the sexiest thing that a random guy said to me recently? It was along the lines of, "I accidentally adopted a kitten...there was this sad scraggly thing at the back door...and I felt bad for her, so...one thing led to another, and now I guess I have a cat." I actually felt myself warming up to him and noticing what great eyes he had.

In the interest of contributing something to this thread that you guys can actually USE...here's something that will make most women think of you as more of a friend, but a lot of guys seem to do with women they are interested in: listening to her talk about her problems with the guy she is with now/was with until recently. Don't do it. It's a good way for her to think of you as a girlfriend. If she starts to talk about it, shift the conversation back to you and her. Your early interactions with her should focus on YOU and HER, not HER and HIM. That's a category 1, I think.

I hope this clears things up somewhat.

Re: Ask the 2+2 Ladies Your Questions
 

Oh, and wow SeaSiren..that's great. Congrats!

Re: Ask the 2+2 Ladies Your Questions
 

Grats, SeaSiren!

And great post, VR. They say the real title to every first novel is "Lost Illusions." It sounds like you've grown out of some of yours, and that you're happier for it. A lot of people hold onto them for quite a long time, as if they were something precious. But actually women become dramatically better-rounded, more stable, and more attractive once they grow up a bit, and a lot of their personalities really seem to bloom. It can be a real pleasure to talk to a woman, but talking to a girl is sometimes annoying as heck.

Re: Ask the 2+2 Ladies Your Questions
 

Thanks for the congrats everyone! My title's just fine - no need to boast! But thx for the offer Carter!

I wish I wasn't so crazy busy working today so I could respond to a bunch of these comments/questions more thoughtfully... will try to in more depth later.

But I will say that VR hit most of what would be my list of 'attractive qualities in a man' list... very well thought out! I'll add that as I get older, I now think I'm far more accepting and much less judgemental and think there's some value to my 70% rule. Well, it's not a 'rule' really, but if there's about 70% of the stuff that works well and compatibly - just don't sweat the 30% that isn't. A mutual connection and chemistry can make up about 50% - that's not something that can be manufactured and must be appreciated, just doesn't happen everyday.

I do have to disagree with VR on that some things can be 'outgrown' -- I wish it were so though!!! Maybe some core (albeit stupid) attractions are just ingrained in some women like [ QUOTE ]

Really, for me and for most of the women I know, we decided at some point that dating men that were distant/unpredictable/blow hot and cold/don't want to listen to us/very incompatible was no longer fun and they were no longer attractive.

<font color="blue"> and... </font>

It wasn't even a question of, "oh, that guy is so attractive...wait, I'm doing it again...he's being distant...ugh." I outgrew that. So did most of the women that I know.

[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe it's because I'm a little 'green' in the dating game as it's only been just over a year since a long relationship &amp; a long marriage! OMG I've regressed - sigh.
But, it's strange how attractive I find those guys who pursue me &amp; give me all the 'go' signs - then back off/don't call a lot... emotionally unavailable blablabla. They're the one's I'm hot for! (My current situation!)
Have had some awesomely sweet men I've dated who've wanted to give me the world, are very doting and available yet... I don't know - just doesn't 'snap my carrot'!
So my point is that this is such a subjective topic and I'm just not sure someone can 'outgrow' certain appeals? If someone has experience (negative experience), absolutely one will (hopefully) avoid and try not repeat being involved with abusive behaviors. Yeah, I could say during later part of my marriage I was somewhat emotionally abused and will steer-clear of that kind of behavior from someone I date.

Re: Ask the 2+2 Ladies Your Questions
 

Great posts by everyone since I left. I think even Cardo stepped up a bit and was less harsh than usual. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] And good posts as usual Blarg. Top notch (the long one).

VR,

Just to clarify, all of those things that you listed are good traits to appreciate in my book. I feel that I represent a fair amount of them (and the ones I do not, mostly I want to improve upon)....

That said, is this the type of thing that I can't really expect from most 20-25 year old girls? ie, are most girls my age still probably not yet to the stage of appreciating those values and would rather go after the "distant/mean"/crazy guys? I expect the answer is, "most girls at that age are not yet at the stage VR is at, but some certainly are."

Yes?

Re: Ask the 2+2 Ladies Your Questions
 

Thanks, SoloAJ. You know, I think many people have to be out in the working world for at least a year or two before they start to wise up. (Some, enabled by money and/or good looks, a lot longer.) I've seen this personality change come over women around 24 or so many times. It's hard to be a good fit with the real world until you really start living in it.

Re: Ask the 2+2 Ladies Your Questions
 

[ QUOTE ]
Someone with a beautiful smile (btw, the smile in the pic is a 10).

[/ QUOTE ]

thank you

Re: Ask the 2+2 Ladies Your Questions
 

Great answer Katy. That's exactly what I was looking for!