Re: LOTR: Return of the King (GAME THREAD)
 

[ QUOTE ]
MARK MARK MARK MARK MARK

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Do you think he's Denathor or Sauron?

Re: LOTR: Return of the King (GAME THREAD)
 

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OK, the tie-in just zoomed over my head (sorry I don't see it). How does Skoob affect the wolves decision to kill Gandalf instead of role-blocking him?
What's wrong with killing Skoob/blocking Gandalf then killing Gandalf the next day?

I'll reread your arguements again...

[/ QUOTE ]
The tie in is that if the wolves knew that Skoob was either Frodo or Sam it is absolutely 100% right to kill Skoob instead of Aaron regardless of who Aragorn is. The fact that they didn't means something. My original theory was that Nich was FPSing to try to clear himself but Nich has advanced an alternative theory that makes more sense - the wolves didn't realize that Skoob was Frodo/Sam at the time. Since I clearly did as evidenced by my attempted late vote switch I cannot be a wolf.

Does that make more sense now?

Re: LOTR: Return of the King (GAME THREAD)
 

if mark is wolf, then someone who is unconfirmed today was on witch king d3, which is why he thought they were successful in blocking eow on n2?

Re: LOTR: Return of the King (GAME THREAD)
 

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well u didn't kill skoob n2, so u must not have noticed it...that's all there is to it

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This - btw - is Nich's "counterargument" to that point.

Compelling yeah?

Re: LOTR: Return of the King (GAME THREAD)
 

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MARK MARK MARK MARK MARK

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And I thought it was fmxda or Jeremy...

Why vote Aaron d1?

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Both had good vote picks except for the double vote on d3 which could be explained by them being blocked on d2

Re: LOTR: Return of the King (GAME THREAD)
 

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MARK MARK MARK MARK MARK

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And I thought it was fmxda or Jeremy...

Why vote Aaron d1?

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Why not? He wasn't getting lynched right?

Now you are questioning my claim?

Re: LOTR: Return of the King (GAME THREAD)
 

that wasn't my only counterargument, herbie...good try tho

i pointed out that u didn't notice skoob was frodo/sam by ur actions...u can't say that u are cleared because u jumped onto the rich wagon when everyone was jumping off of skoob d2...u had already been on rich and u simply went back to him when everyone abandoned skoobmobile...ur actions that day (and other days) were to vote to keep mark around

Re: LOTR: Return of the King (GAME THREAD)
 

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MARK MARK MARK MARK MARK

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And I thought it was fmxda or Jeremy...

Why vote Aaron d1?

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Why not? He wasn't getting lynched right?

Now you are questioning my claim?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope, just trying to understand the reason.

Re: LOTR: Return of the King (GAME THREAD)
 

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that wasn't my only counterargument, herbie...good try tho

i pointed out that u didn't notice skoob was frodo/sam by ur actions...u can't say that u are cleared because u jumped onto the rich wagon when everyone was jumping off of skoob d2...u had already been on rich and u simply went back to him when everyone abandoned skoobmobile...ur actions that day (and other days) were to vote to keep mark around

[/ QUOTE ]
Because I have said the entire game that Mark was a villager maybe? That could also explain why I didn't vote for him - I don't usually vote for people I think are villagers.

Re: LOTR: Return of the King (GAME THREAD)
 

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MARK MARK MARK MARK MARK

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And I thought it was fmxda or Jeremy...

Why vote Aaron d1?

[/ QUOTE ]

Both had good vote picks except for the double vote on d3 which could be explained by them being blocked on d2

[/ QUOTE ]

What?

BTW, Nich is 60% wolf to Herbie's 40% at the time being. Nich's post on Mark could be very useful.

Re: LOTR: Return of the King (GAME THREAD)
 

cool; so u admit u have been trying to protect mark each day

that'll be useful when ur role is revealed to the rest of the village

Re: LOTR: Return of the King (GAME THREAD)
 

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cool; so u admit u have been trying to protect mark each day

that'll be useful when ur role is revealed to the rest of the village

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Hopefully it will be although they will probably lynch him anyways

Re: LOTR: Return of the King (GAME THREAD)
 

btw, herbie...u never did give ur suspects list

who do u think are wolves/villagers of the unconfirmeds?

Re: LOTR: Return of the King (GAME THREAD)
 

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btw, herbie...u never did give ur suspects list

who do u think are wolves/villagers of the unconfirmeds?

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I did earlier today - FMX/Chuckles are the wolves and everyone else is village

Re: LOTR: Return of the King (GAME THREAD)
 

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Just promise me that you won't let FMX and Chuckles get away after you lynch me and everything will be fine (I think)

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QFNich making things up - this is from one of my posts earlier today

Re: LOTR: Return of the King (GAME THREAD)
 

reasoning?

who is next suspect if fmx/chuck come up clean?

Re: LOTR: Return of the King (GAME THREAD)
 

[ 1 ] chuckleslovakian voted for Stephen H
[ 0 ] FCBLComish voted for HerbieGRD
[ 0 ] fmxda
[ 0 ] FortFun
[ 4 ] HerbieGRD voted for Nicholasp27
[ 0 ] Jack Bando voted for HerbieGRD
[ 0 ] Jeremy517
[ 2 ] Mark_K voted for HerbieGRD
[ 0 ] Nez477 voted for Mark_K
[ 1 ] Nicholasp27 voted for HerbieGRD
[ 1 ] Stephen H voted for Mark_K
[ 0 ] Thebram voted for chuckleslovakian
[ 0 ] wdcbooks

Re: LOTR: Return of the King (GAME THREAD)
 

Note to village:

Herbie has STILL not addressed Nich's main arguement. Herbie has posted a ton. But it still stands out there uncontested.

Re: LOTR: Return of the King (GAME THREAD)
 

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MARK MARK MARK MARK MARK

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And I thought it was fmxda or Jeremy...

Why vote Aaron d1?

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Both had good vote picks except for the double vote on d3 which could be explained by them being blocked on d2

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What?

BTW, Nich is 60% wolf to Herbie's 40% at the time being. Nich's post on Mark could be very useful.

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What what? I just didn't understand why you would search for the roleblocker on a claimed Gandalf. That is all.

BTW.... important message coming up....

Re: LOTR: Return of the King (GAME THREAD)
 

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reasoning?

who is next suspect if fmx/chuck come up clean?

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Nich I have posted more content on the average day than you have the entire game - you are just desperate to change the subject since you know that you have no counterarguments to the arguments I am making against you today.

I have already posted quite a bit of reasoning for why I think Chuckles is a wolf and the way he was saved in favor of TFG (unpowered wolf) does nothing to clear him. I can quote the posts if you want.

I will try to make the case for FMX being a wolf later but I have been rather busy trying to convince people to take off their blinders and lynch you today.

Re: LOTR: Return of the King (GAME THREAD)
 

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Note to village:

Herbie has STILL not addressed Nich's main arguement. Herbie has posted a ton. But it still stands out there uncontested.

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Mark,
I have addressed EVERYTHING - if YOU have a question please ask me and I will answer it specifically. The problem is that if you are asking me why the wolves did X instead of Y then there is no way I can know BECAUSE I AM NOT A WOLF. The fact that I can't tell you why the wolves did something stupid DOES NOT MAKE ME A WOLF. DO YOU SEE WHY?

Re: LOTR: Return of the King (GAME THREAD)
 

i've also made case for chuck, so that's a wash

make ur case for fmx please...and again i ask...who are ur next suspects after chuck/fmx?



and i've already counterargued ur point...ur entire defense comes down to u recognizing that skoob was sam/frodo...that's it

Re: LOTR: Return of the King (GAME THREAD)
 

*******Important Message********

If anyone thinks that Nich is a wolf because of my actions or support:

PLEASE VOTE ME OFF FIRST. See that I'm just a villager and then make a decision on who you think the real Aragorn is.

However, I still say the best path for the village is to vote Herbie today...

Re: LOTR: Return of the King (GAME THREAD)
 

I'm really starting to think that we've pinned down two wolves between Herbie and Mark.

Re: LOTR: Return of the King (GAME THREAD)
 

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and i've already counterargued ur point...ur entire defense comes down to u recognizing that skoob was sam/frodo...that's it

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No it doesn't and the fact that you want to make it all about that is the point. There is no way that our discussion and this argument evolves the way it has throughout the day if you are Aragorn and I am a wolf. That's the real point here and it's the point that I am desperately hoping the villagers will come to understand.

TO RECAP AGAIN - I make an argument explaining why Nich is a wolf. Nich then corrects me because my argument was wrong but he corrects me with the REAL explanation of what happened that night WHICH HE KNOWS BECAUSE HE IS A WOLF. I then call him out on it and he has no counterargument. He does, however, start twisting my words, throwing baseless accusations and implications at me, and generally trying to change this whole discussion from a logical debate into a mud-slinging contest BECAUSE IT'S THE ONLY WAY HE CAN CONVINCE YOU PEOPLE TO LYNCH ME INSTEAD OF HIM.

Re: LOTR: Return of the King (GAME THREAD)
 

Although...THAT is an interesting development.

Re: LOTR: Return of the King (GAME THREAD)
 

[ QUOTE ]
*******Important Message********

If anyone thinks that Nich is a wolf because of my actions or support:

PLEASE VOTE ME OFF FIRST. See that I'm just a villager and then make a decision on who you think the real Aragorn is.

However, I still say the best path for the village is to vote Herbie today...

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, you were CONVINCED that Nich was the fake like a day ago.

Re: LOTR: Return of the King (GAME THREAD)
 

Wishy-washy all-over the place random Mark IS the way to go today. Period. His role helps us determine who the real Aragorn is completely.

Re: LOTR: Return of the King (GAME THREAD)
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Note to village:

Herbie has STILL not addressed Nich's main arguement. Herbie has posted a ton. But it still stands out there uncontested.

[/ QUOTE ]
Mark,
I have addressed EVERYTHING - if YOU have a question please ask me and I will answer it specifically. The problem is that if you are asking me why the wolves did X instead of Y then there is no way I can know BECAUSE I AM NOT A WOLF. The fact that I can't tell you why the wolves did something stupid DOES NOT MAKE ME A WOLF. DO YOU SEE WHY?

[/ QUOTE ]

Herbie,
Can the wolves make a "dumb" move? Sure. Anything is possible. But I don't think this is very likely considering how well the wolves have played so far.

The wolves will make logical moves. If Nich is Aragorn, the wolves killing Gandalf is logical but a strategy that clears Nich.
If Nich is a wolf, the risk of trying to kill Gandalf is NOT logical.

Re: LOTR: Return of the King (GAME THREAD)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
*******Important Message********

If anyone thinks that Nich is a wolf because of my actions or support:

PLEASE VOTE ME OFF FIRST. See that I'm just a villager and then make a decision on who you think the real Aragorn is.

However, I still say the best path for the village is to vote Herbie today...

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, you were CONVINCED that Nich was the fake like a day ago.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are right. I admited I was wrong then and I explained why. Again, if it clears Nich, yes vote for me.

However, I still think the village should vote Herbie today.

Re: LOTR: Return of the King (GAME THREAD)
 

el oh el

i know because i know that YOU are a wolf

the fact that aaron died means that u guys blocked me and killed aaron...if u had noticed skoob, u woulda killed him and blocked aaron, so u didn't notice skoob

u argued that if wolves knew skoob was sam/frodo, they woulda killed him...since wolves didn't kill skoob, i'm following your theory by concluding that skoob wasn't known to the wolves n2

that logically follows ur theory

Re: LOTR: Return of the King (GAME THREAD)
 

[ QUOTE ]
The wolves will make logical moves. If Nich is Aragorn, the wolves killing Gandalf is logical but a strategy that clears Nich.


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No it isn't - period under any circumstances. If you don't understand why then I know already that I cannot convince you otherwise but I swear to you NO IT IS MOST CERTAINLY NOT LOGICAL TO KILL AARON THERE REGARDLESS OF NICH'S ROLE. ESPECIALLY SINCE LUCKAY (Theoden) GOT LYNCHED THAT DAY IT IS NEVER LOGICAL TO KILL AARON THERE INSTEAD OF JUST ROLEBLOCKING HIM INTO ETERNITY.

I am not trying to be harsh but obviously if you don't accept the basic premise that killing Aaron there is -EV for the wolves under any and all circumstances then nothing I say is likely to convince you otherwise and we should just all move on with our lives.

Re: LOTR: Return of the King (GAME THREAD)
 

if u know 100% that u can kill gandalf then u do it

a) no worries if roleblocker gets lynched

b) u can use your roleblocker each night to block your secondary seer suspect while killing your primary suspect

Re: LOTR: Return of the King (GAME THREAD)
 

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Wishy-washy all-over the place random Mark IS the way to go today. Period. His role helps us determine who the real Aragorn is completely.

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BTW, I wouldn't call me wishy-washy... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I've been VERY wrong.. but not wish-washy.

Re: LOTR: Return of the King (GAME THREAD)
 

***here we go***

let's assume for a sec that you DID notice skoob, herbie...u said urself u figured he was frodo from his non-claiming


so ur options are:

a) roleblock me/skoob and kill aaron
b) roleblock aaron/me and kill skoob

REMEMBER, there were 2 roleblocks allowed n2!

if u do a, then u get gandalf gone and u can get skoob the next day even if roleblocker is lynched
if u do b, then u get 'frodo' gone, but if roleblocker is lynched u can't get aaron...

if u really believe that skoob=frodo, not sam, u may wish to do a over b, especially if u thought roleblocker was a target soon...

however, skoob was sam, not frodo, which hurt you

also, even if skoob was frodo, sam then gets ring...so that's another peek for village...


in scenario a:

u kill gandalf and prevent 'frodo' from getting peek...then kill frodo n3...thus no peeks for village n2/n3

n3 u kill skoob and sam gets no peek

n4 u seer hunt and block 2ndary choice so 2 shots at preventing peek here



in scenario b:

u kill 'frodo' and prevent gandalf from getting peek

n3, u have to roleblock me and kill gandalf...so sam gets free peek

n4, u can seer hunt and block 2ndard choice....



so the MAJOR IMPORTANT difference in a and b is that there is no n3 peek in a, but there is in b

if u believe skoob was frodo, which u said that YOU did, then you would go with a, which is what happened


thus, the fact that aaron died doesn't help u at all...the skoob issue does not help u


sorry, herbie...game over

Re: LOTR: Return of the King (GAME THREAD)
 

recap:

herbie's defense is that he knew skoob was frodo/sam and thus wouldn't have killed aaron if he was wolf


i just showed how even if he knew skoob was frodo/sam, he would still kill aaron n2...thus rendering his defense USELESS

Re: LOTR: Return of the King (GAME THREAD)
 

I really have no [censored] idea how I am the leading wagon right now. For you to believe that I am the wolf here you have to believe that either

1. I made a series of abysmally poor decisions or
2. That I intentionally made a complicated and convoluted argument when there was a simple one available that was FAR more convincing and believable

For you to believe Nich is a wolf all you have to do is NOT believe him when he says "I know I am not a wolf"

This whole day is so bad its honestly painful to me.

Re: LOTR: Return of the King (GAME THREAD)
 

to put it another way, put urself in the wolves' shoes...

u know who gandalf/aragorn/frodo are

u have 2 roleblocks

what do u do?

if u block aragorn and block frodo and kill gandalf, then gandalf is forever gone and frodo gets no peek and can be killed the following night

if u block gandalf and kill frodo, then u still gotta block aragorn and kill gandalf the next night, at which point sam is ringbearer and gets free peek

thus u have to kill gandalf first

Re: LOTR: Return of the King (GAME THREAD)
 

[ QUOTE ]
For you to believe that I am the wolf here you have to believe that either

1. I made a series of abysmally poor decisions or
2. That I intentionally made a complicated and convoluted argument when there was a simple one available that was FAR more convincing and believable

[/ QUOTE ]

1. blocking me/killing aaron and then killing skoob following night was a GREAT decision...very sound

2. please state ur simple explanation that is convincing; i musta missed it


3. u can just concede now and we can all go on to focusing on other games tonite

Re: LOTR: Return of the King (GAME THREAD)
 

unvote, need to reread today at the very least.

For some reason, I can't understand today. It's like reading a history textbook for some reason.