Re: Absolute Cliffsnotes (Mod edit: AP thread, part 2)
 

adanthar,

no sarcasm, so youre saying a total retard is going to minbet to induce a c/r there and then make perfect pot odds calls with QT vs A3? It just seems something isn't adding up, either he's a moron cheater who doesn't know [censored] about pot odds or he's a skilled cheater, etc

again no disrespect, i totally appreciate what you have done here, just trying to discuss the hands

Re: Absolute Cliffsnotes (Mod edit: AP thread, part 2)
 

Does AP have any incentive to admit this happened even if they were 100% sure of an account compromise?

Re: Absolute Cliffsnotes (Mod edit: AP thread, part 2)
 

[ QUOTE ]
adanthar,

no sarcasm, so youre saying a total retard is going to minbet to induce a c/r there

[/ QUOTE ]

no, I'm saying a total retard is going to minbet when he has trips, for no other reason than him having trips. strategywise, though, it makes the pot bigger for when the other guy hits his overcard(s), at the cost of giving the other guy odds to draw to pretty much anything.

of course, if you can see souls, the latter isn't a problem.

Re: Absolute Cliffsnotes (Mod edit: AP thread, part 2)
 

that tourney summary is no where close to supporting the case of cheating, if anything it has swayed me the other way temporarily (until the next installment!)

Re: Absolute Cliffsnotes (Mod edit: AP thread, part 2)
 

[ QUOTE ]
that tourney summary is no where close to supporting the case of cheating, if anything it has swayed me the other way temporarily (until the next installment!)

[/ QUOTE ]

you are right, that FT summary alone is insufficient:


Stage #896976330 Tourney ID 1883389 Holdem Multi Normal Tournament No Limit $4500 - 2007-09-13 01:43:49 (ET)
Table: 14 (Real Money) Seat #3 is the dealer
Seat 3 - POTRIPPER ($765740 in chips)
Seat 8 - CRAZYMARCO ($214260 in chips)
POTRIPPER - Ante $450
CRAZYMARCO - Ante $450
POTRIPPER - Posts small blind $2250
CRAZYMARCO - Posts big blind $4500
*** POCKET CARDS ***
POTRIPPER - Calls $2250
CRAZYMARCO - Checks
*** FLOP *** [4h Kd Kh]
CRAZYMARCO - Checks
POTRIPPER - Bets $9000
CRAZYMARCO - Calls $9000
*** TURN *** [4h Kd Kh] [7s]
CRAZYMARCO - Checks
POTRIPPER - Bets $13500
CRAZYMARCO - All-In(Raise) $200310 to $200310
POTRIPPER - Calls $186810
*** RIVER *** [4h Kd Kh 7s] [5s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
POTRIPPER - Shows [10c 9c] (One pair, kings)
CRAZYMARCO - Shows [9h 2h] (One pair, kings)
POTRIPPER Collects $428520 from main pot

Re: Absolute Cliffsnotes (Mod edit: AP thread, part 2)
 

[ QUOTE ]
primetime: he has 10x monster's chips in that hand. that matters a lot if you're a donkey.

also, while those hands alone wouldn't be enough to convict...

Stage #896976330 Tourney ID 1883389 Holdem Multi Normal Tournament No Limit $4500 - 2007-09-13 01:43:49 (ET)
Table: 14 (Real Money) Seat #3 is the dealer
Seat 3 - POTRIPPER ($765740 in chips)
Seat 8 - CRAZYMARCO ($214260 in chips)
POTRIPPER - Ante $450
CRAZYMARCO - Ante $450
POTRIPPER - Posts small blind $2250
CRAZYMARCO - Posts big blind $4500
*** POCKET CARDS ***
POTRIPPER - Calls $2250
CRAZYMARCO - Checks
*** FLOP *** [4h Kd Kh]
CRAZYMARCO - Checks
POTRIPPER - Bets $9000
CRAZYMARCO - Calls $9000
*** TURN *** [4h Kd Kh] [7s]
CRAZYMARCO - Checks
POTRIPPER - Bets $13500
CRAZYMARCO - All-In(Raise) $200310 to $200310
POTRIPPER - Calls $186810
*** RIVER *** [4h Kd Kh 7s] [5s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
POTRIPPER - Shows [10c 9c] (One pair, kings)
CRAZYMARCO - Shows [9h 2h] (One pair, kings)
POTRIPPER Collects $428520 from main pot

[/ QUOTE ]

This has the been the one hand from the start that set off all sorts of alarms for me to. However, the rest of the hands i have seen are far less dramatic. And if he is cheating he is the worst cheater in the history of poker. And for someone to get the program to see hole cards you would think they would do a slightly better job of hiding their cheating.

Again, i am not saying these guys didnt cheat, i am just saying that i have not been convinced as of yet.

Re: Absolute Cliffsnotes (Mod edit: AP thread, part 2)
 

[ QUOTE ]
adanthar,

no sarcasm, so youre saying a total retard is going to minbet to induce a c/r there and then make perfect pot odds calls with QT vs A3? It just seems something isn't adding up, either he's a moron cheater who doesn't know [censored] about pot odds or he's a skilled cheater, etc

again no disrespect, i totally appreciate what you have done here, just trying to discuss the hands

[/ QUOTE ]

There could be another reason. His call came pretty quickly, so it might be b/c had had me 10:1, and i wasnt giving in to his play (not c-betting at all against him, not raising his blinds since my K-2 try, even though he was my BB) so he might just have figured that he had to gamble me at some point, in order to get me out.

Obv the guy has no brains or patience at all, or else he would win like hustlers in the old days, ie. not winning every hand, but loosing a few to keep it decent.

Re: Absolute Cliffsnotes (Mod edit: AP thread, part 2)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
that tourney summary is no where close to supporting the case of cheating, if anything it has swayed me the other way temporarily (until the next installment!)

[/ QUOTE ]

you are right, that FT summary alone is insufficient:


Stage #896976330 Tourney ID 1883389 Holdem Multi Normal Tournament No Limit $4500 - 2007-09-13 01:43:49 (ET)
Table: 14 (Real Money) Seat #3 is the dealer
Seat 3 - POTRIPPER ($765740 in chips)
Seat 8 - CRAZYMARCO ($214260 in chips)
POTRIPPER - Ante $450
CRAZYMARCO - Ante $450
POTRIPPER - Posts small blind $2250
CRAZYMARCO - Posts big blind $4500
*** POCKET CARDS ***
POTRIPPER - Calls $2250
CRAZYMARCO - Checks
*** FLOP *** [4h Kd Kh]
CRAZYMARCO - Checks
POTRIPPER - Bets $9000
CRAZYMARCO - Calls $9000
*** TURN *** [4h Kd Kh] [7s]
CRAZYMARCO - Checks
POTRIPPER - Bets $13500
CRAZYMARCO - All-In(Raise) $200310 to $200310
POTRIPPER - Calls $186810
*** RIVER *** [4h Kd Kh 7s] [5s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
POTRIPPER - Shows [10c 9c] (One pair, kings)
CRAZYMARCO - Shows [9h 2h] (One pair, kings)
POTRIPPER Collects $428520 from main pot

[/ QUOTE ]


yes this one hand is crazy, but of all the hands you posted just recently, they just about look standard and like he is merely terrible.

fwiw, someting defo stinks here, but those hands you posted dont support the cheating thing at all, in my mind.

Re: Absolute Cliffsnotes (Mod edit: AP thread, part 2)
 

[ QUOTE ]

So far we have no evidence that substantiates claims that any of the players were involved in chip dumping, or any other improper activity.



[/ QUOTE ]

If this [censored] is an official statement I dont see how this can NOT be an inside job.

Re: Absolute Cliffsnotes (Mod edit: AP thread, part 2)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Does AP have any incentive to admit this happened even if they were 100% sure of an account compromise?

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe not enough incentive, but Ikestoys and I, and probably several other mid and high stakes NL regulars will be leaving if they don't.