Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

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Why are people so obsessed with catchers offensive outputs? Do you realize Posada is probably the worst in the league at the a huge part of the job -- giving pitchers confidence to throw all of their pitches in big spots.

This aspect magnifies even more in close playoff games, which are dominated by pitchers b.c. top pitchers control games much more than top hitters (i.e. Arod, who mainly feed their sick stats off 5.00+ ERA guys, who unfortunately for Arod appear in the playoffs quite rarely).

And its not like the Yankees need Posada's bat / can't afford to bat a scrub hitting catcher in every game.

If Pudge were avail and I had Yankees payroll, I'd offer him 35-40mil for 2 yrs, or 20 for 1. One of the very very few spots in free agency where paying a huge yearly salary is actually ok.

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W

T

F

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

Are you sure Pudge would take it? 3/60 imo gets it done.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

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APXG:

whose gimmick account are you? You can be honest - the secret's out now.

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Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

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You know if you guys don't want Posada, the Mets will certainly be happy to take him.

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dude hes gonna be 36, has played C for his entire career, is coming of a monster season in NY....believe me you don't want him on your team with what he will get paid.

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THANK YOU!!!!! if you could give him a reasonable 3 year deal that'd be great... but I wouldn't be suprised if he got a monster 4 year deal... it's just not worth it... trade melky if you have to... get a catcher, there has to be a way... also what's the minumum amount of years the yankees could offer Rowand... would he sign a lucrative 4 year deal... cus that'd be sick

edit- plus i think his 36th birthday was this past august

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you might be the most negative poster i've ever seen. YOU are the black hole. i understand realism but jesus christ.

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you sound like a woman

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

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even 3 years for posada is too much IMO., but if any team can pay for one 1.5 valuable years over 3-4 its the NYY.

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I completely agree... the problem however is that since he's making all this money in the 3rd 4th and godforbid 5th season of the deal... he'd probably still catch... him at Catcher and Jeter at SS in 4 years are probably the only things stopping this team from another dynasty with their sick young pitching/ player adding ability

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

BTW A catchers game calling ability is the only significant intangible in baseball...to say it doesn't exist because there isn't a good way to record it as Data is ignorant

Is jose molina a good catcher?

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

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even 3 years for posada is too much IMO., but if any team can pay for one 1.5 valuable years over 3-4 its the NYY.

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I completely agree... the problem however is that since he's making all this money in the 3rd 4th and godforbid 5th season of the deal... he'd probably still catch... him at Catcher and Jeter at SS in 4 years are probably the only things stopping this team from another dynasty with their sick young pitching/ player adding ability

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I don't think Posada at catcher will be a major liability in the coming years.

you seem to think the yankees can use jose molina which is LOL.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

Suzyn Waldman is such a great great great reporter. That on-air crying session was perfect.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

[ QUOTE ]
APXG:

whose gimmick account are you? You can be honest - the secret's out now.

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lol, i only post opinions that are controversial / provide an alternative perspective. imo when everyone agrees with you, its a waste of time.

also, explain how / why posada being handicapped when catching pitches is not a huge problem. one could easily argue that if molina / anyone else is behind the plate, yankees win game 2.

on the flip side, i can't even envision a scenario where replacing posada's bat in the lineup with molina's would cost an entire game. over the whole postseason through the WS, the posada-molina batting edge probably would add up to less than 1 "game".

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

way to answer the question

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

[ QUOTE ]
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APXG:

whose gimmick account are you? You can be honest - the secret's out now.

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lol, i only post opinions that are controversial / provide an alternative perspective. imo when everyone agrees with you, its a waste of time.

also, explain how / why posada being handicapped when catching pitches is not a huge problem. one could easily argue that if molina / anyone else is behind the plate, yankees win game 2.

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One can easily argue if I'd folded that set on the turn when my opponent shoved all in, I wouldn't've lost when the flush card came that gave my opponent the winner. Oh - this is being results-oriented by the way. You don't even know if Molina catches those balls that Posada missed.

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on the flip side, i can't even envision a scenario where replacing posada's bat in the lineup with molina's would cost an entire game. over the whole postseason through the WS, the posada-molina batting edge probably would add up to less than 1 "game".

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Jose Molina is a lifetime .243/.279/.345 hitter. That is terrible. Playing every day would make him one of the worst players in the league. Those are TERRIBLE numbers. If you can't see the value in having a .277/.381/.479 bat in your lineup instead of Jose [censored] Molina, you don't know very much about baseball. Molina would probably cost the Yankees 1 run every 3 games in offense vs. Posada.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

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One can easily argue if I'd folded that set on the turn when my opponent shoved all in, I wouldn't've lost when the flush card came that gave my opponent the winner.

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Did the flush card come on the Turn or River?

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

My point was that Posada is the absolute worst "catcher of pitches" I have seen, ever.

I also think people are greatly undervaluing the importance of catching pitches as part of a catcher's value.

And I also think its incorrect to be obsessed with how well the most imporant defensive position contributes offensively, especially if you have a lineup filled with offensive superstars.

Given his stats, I agree Yanks would want to find better option than Molina. But the search should start with defense, which immediately disqualifies Posada.

Is it clear / am I still crazy?

[img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

Catchers do not influence the game defensively anywhere near as much as you think they do.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

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One can easily argue if I'd folded that set on the turn when my opponent shoved all in, I wouldn't've lost when the flush card came that gave my opponent the winner.

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Did the flush card come on the Turn or River?

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river obv

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

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One can easily argue if I'd folded that set on the turn when my opponent shoved all in, I wouldn't've lost when the flush card came that gave my opponent the winner.

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Did the flush card come on the Turn or River?

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river obv

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The donk shoved all-in on a draw?

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

APXG:

You've always been clear. I don't think catcher is the most important defensive position - not even close. Is Victor Martinez a good defensive catcher?

Toro: yes, he shoved all in on a draw. we called, and lost on the river. could've been avoided if we'd just folded the turn!

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

"We" called? Poker is not a team sport you know.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

[ QUOTE ]
My point was that Posada is the absolute worst "catcher of pitches" I have seen, ever.

I also think people are greatly undervaluing the importance of catching pitches as part of a catcher's value.


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On what do you base your opinion that Posada is the worst -- I'm sorry, the absolute worst -- "catcher of pitches"?

Although I am not really clear on what "catcher of pitches" means, I would submit that any measurable negative effect of his defense (which is far from league best but also not league worst) is more than offset by his bat.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

I hear a lot of Red Sox fans complain about Varitek. With Varitek it's the opposite complaint that you have about Posada. The complaining Sox fans want more offense from him.

I think what people don't realize is that there really aren't a lot of great catchers out there to be had. So as a Sox fan I'm totally satisfied with Varitek simply because there really aren't many better alternatives out there. He gives us good defense and is not horrible offensively.

And I would say, it would be the same for the Yankees, who really is out there that could give them more than what they are getting?

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

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"We" called? Poker is not a team sport you know.

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The royal we, the editorial we...

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

Really sorry, couldn't resist.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...essYankees.jpg

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3063506

"George Steinbrenner's sons Hank and Hal have taken over the daily running of the New York Yankees, according to a report."

Not sure what the implications of this are.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

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http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3063506

"George Steinbrenner's sons Hank and Hal have taken over the daily running of the New York Yankees, according to a report."

Not sure what the implications of this are.

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"While Torre's future remains in doubt, it appears young pitcher Joba Chamberlain will be joining the Yankees starting rotation come spring training.

"That's something I'll insist on," said Hank Steinbrenner."

looks like not much has changed. how the [censored] is that an ownership decision?

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

Just heard on Mike and the Mad Dog that Guidry probably won't be back next year.

Leo Mazzone has been mentioned as a possible candidate to replace him but the guys on the show didn't think it would happen.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

here's a cute article on Jeter's "extracurricular" activities:

http://www.nypost.com/seven/10162007...ix/pagesix.htm

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

a few questions, and a positive interview from rivera. via http://www.nyjournalnews.com/apps/pb...95/1035/SPORTS

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As Cashman works on hiring a manager, he also has entered into negotiations with free agents Jorge Posada and Mariano Rivera.

Rivera appeared on a radio show yesterday and said he was prepared to sign without first knowing who the manager is.

"I know the Yankees are going to do whatever they think is best for the team. I always respect them for that," Rivera said on Sirius Satellite Radio. "I don't think it has to do nothing, with me, in terms of signing with the Yankees."

Rivera has said in the past he is willing to test the market. But he would prefer to return to the Yankees.

"Definitely, they know my feelings," he said. "They know what they have to do, so I don't worry about it. The ball is in their court, and I'm just being patient."

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Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

Sylar,

You forgot an important question int he poll, "who SHOULD be manager of the Yankees next year?" and that answer is Girardi. Donnie Baseball will be.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

[ QUOTE ]
Sylar,

You forgot an important question int he poll, "who SHOULD be manager of the Yankees next year?" and that answer is Girardi. Donnie Baseball will be.

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that's a loaded question i wanted to avoid. basically, after thinking about this for 2 weeks straight, i know what i think and i don't care to let the likes of rockies fans to weigh in on the situation.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

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Sylar,

You forgot an important question int he poll, "who SHOULD be manager of the Yankees next year?" and that answer is Girardi. Donnie Baseball will be.

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The absolute worst managerial choice would be Girardi. He wasn't fired by the Marlins for clashing with the owner, he was fired for clashing with everyone in the Marlin's organisation, esp. his superiors. The Marlin's GM (Beinfest) did such an awesome job of stocking that team with young talent that virtually any competent manager could have done well with that team. And at the end of the year the GM wanted Girardi as far away from his youngsters as possible, and was worried about Girardi burning out his pitchers arms. Girardi is too headstrong and arrogant, and one of the most undeserved Manager of the Year winners in history.

In reality, the Yankee empire is coming to an end. The middle aged elephants are taking active roles and have big mouths and this spells doom. Proof of that is in the following elephant interview.

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Hank Steinbrenner said four or five people will be interviewed, but Valentine wasn't on the list. Valentine, former manager of the New York Mets and Texas Rangers, currently is managing the Chiba Lotte Marines in Japan.

"I would say at this point probably not. He's certainly a smart guy, but probably not,'' Steinbrenner said.

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Bobby Valentine would easily be the best choice available. He's not only smart, but he's open-minded. He's open to input from the front office on finding the best way to use his personnel. He's not tied down by some hoary old managerial "book" of how old Joe used to do things, or how Casey Stengal did things. He's willing to think through situations with a fresh eye, which is what a great manager should do.

It looks like Cashman wanted Valentine in for an interview, and the elephants squashed it in favor of local retread heroes. Cashman is losing influence to two middle aged trust fund babies and that's the end of it.

The only way to save the situation is to hire Mattingly or Pena and have the front office put a tight leash on them, dictating the most optimal way to use personnel. Just like the A's work. There is no reason for a GM to build a strong roster and stand by as it's used sub-optimally by a quasi-independant ego-centric dictator. Pick the best motivator from the list and give them the right in-game guidelines and things might work out well. But this all assumes that Cashman is retaining any serious authority in the organisation.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

I pretty much disagree with your whole "end of empire" talk.

Most of what I've seen from "the elephants" have been surprisingly good and it even seems like they have a somewhat SABR view of baseball.

Keep in mind these are the guys who insisted on the Joba Rules along with insisting he will be a SP next year. Also, since they have had their quasi control we have seen absolutely no desperation moves at all, nor any trading of good prospects.

edit - I do agree with you that Girardi would be a bad choice.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseba...sada_40_-2.html

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Yankees likely to offer Jorge Posada $40 million (ed: for 3 years)

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Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

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I pretty much disagree with your whole "end of empire" talk.

Most of what I've seen from "the elephants" have been surprisingly good and it even seems like they have a somewhat SABR view of baseball.

Keep in mind these are the guys who insisted on the Joba Rules along with insisting he will be a SP next year. Also, since they have had their quasi control we have seen absolutely no desperation moves at all, nor any trading of good prospects.

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yes, apparently the view from arizona is very gloomy.

i personally don't think girardi is a bad manager. in fact, i think he is quite good, though we are yet to see if he is really old-school or new-SABR-school. yes, he clashed with one ownership, which is notorious for playing baseball like the stock market, win-and-dump. he was hard on a couple of his rookie players, (btw, he was right in that instance). but you can't know that he'll ruin anyone's arm at this point.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

Desert Cat,

May I respectfully ask: Do you have a clue? Do you need help finding one?

Girardi has already been the bench coach for the Yankees and before that he was a player for several years. The Yankees -- front office and players and owners -- know him. The Marlins hired him and then proceeded to sell off what remained of their team, leaving him with a minor league team to manage in the majors -- and he did an admirable job with them. The pitcher burnout rumors have been circulated and never proven. Which pitcher did he burn out? The only pitcher over 200 innings was Dontrelle and it was his fourth season and he pitched fewer innings than he pitched the previous season. The only indication I have seen that he burned anyone out is the fact that many of the pitchers did far worse this year than last year -- maybe that has something to do with the Marlins firing the Mananger of the Year?

And you also make the ludicrous suggestion that the Yankees hire a meak manager just so the front office can run the team. Wow. That is crazy. Cashman (or anyone else in the front office) is the worst person to make on field decisions regarding the use of players... and given the way that Torre used pitchers and players "sub-optimally," I am not worried about any of the current candidates.

Any more worthwhile opinions?

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

[ QUOTE ]
Desert Cat,

May I respectfully ask: Do you have a clue? Do you need help finding one?

Girardi has already been the bench coach for the Yankees and before that he was a player for several years. The Yankees -- front office and players and owners -- know him. The Marlins hired him and then proceeded to sell off what remained of their team, leaving him with a minor league team to manage in the majors -- and he did an admirable job with them. The pitcher burnout rumors have been circulated and never proven. Which pitcher did he burn out? The only pitcher over 200 innings was Dontrelle and it was his fourth season and he pitched fewer innings than he pitched the previous season. The only indication I have seen that he burned anyone out is the fact that many of the pitchers did far worse this year than last year -- maybe that has something to do with the Marlins firing the Mananger of the Year?

And you also make the ludicrous suggestion that the Yankees hire a meak manager just so the front office can run the team. Wow. That is crazy. Cashman (or anyone else in the front office) is the worst person to make on field decisions regarding the use of players... and given the way that Torre used pitchers and players "sub-optimally," I am not worried about any of the current candidates.

Any more worthwhile opinions?

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Could you agree with me more? Girardi was a huge red-ass when he played with the Yanks, hopefully they remember how volatile he can be. And that marlins team had a lot of talent, did Girardi hit Ugga's homers for him? 200 innings isn't a measure of pitcher abuse, with young pitchers it can be the increase in innings from one year to the next but the front office could be concerned about signs of fatigue that lead to injury. Girardi failed, he was due to be fired by Beinfest regardless.

The prevous manager had the Joba rules forced on him by Cashman. Are you seriously suggesting the next guy should get to do whatever he wants? In Valentines case you could have had a guy smart enough to help formulate guidelines for best use of players.

Maybe Im just paranoid about the elephants, but in the valentine decision and the silly Torre offer I see Cashman on the outside.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

you guys..alll these interviews and stuff are just show.

Our new manager is Donnie Baseball.
The Steinys want it, the players prefer it, and even Cash is probably fine with it. Plus he'll come cheap and unlike other managers because he's a yankee legend...he'll get more than one year before getting canned if things don't go well.

Joe G is a Tom Coughlin type of manager...we don't need that right now.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

3 years for 40... EH... as long as its not 4 years i'll maintain my sanity somewhat..

How much would we have to offer him in $$$ to make it a 2 year deal?

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

from Rob Neyers column

I can't speak to the accuracy of these Yankees-related rumors, but they're certainly intriguing ...

A source of mine with Yankee connections had some good info for me today. Much was discussed yesterday in Tampa.

For starters, the Yanks are expected to make "eye-popping" offers to retain Jorge Posada and Mariano Rivera before the World Series ends. The team does not want the pair to file for free agency.

Additionally, the Yankees may make a big play for Aaron Rowand. They believe a package of Melky Cabrera, Chien-Ming Wang, and Ian Kennedy would entice the Twins for Johan Santana. That's a huge price, but doesn't seem out of line to me for the best pitcher in baseball.

My source didn't have anything about Andy Pettitte, who hated seeing Joe Torre go and will take a month to decide if he's even going to play next year.


1. Santana
2. Pettitte
3. Hughes
4. Joba
5. Moose

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

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They believe a package of Melky Cabrera, Chien-Ming Wang, and Ian Kennedy would entice the Twins for Johan Santana.

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what

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

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They believe a package of Melky Cabrera, Chien-Ming Wang, and Ian Kennedy would entice the Twins for Johan Santana. That's a huge price, but doesn't seem out of line to me for the best pitcher in baseball.

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zomg please happen