Re: 16: I thought this was a fairly standard push
 

Loxxii, I think the second one may be close with antes, but is a pretty clear fold without.

Re: 16: I thought this was a fairly standard push
 

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Loxxii, I think the second one may be close with antes, but is a pretty clear fold without.

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Re: 16: I thought this was a fairly standard push
 

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Those ranges aren't way off, this is very close.

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its a close situation in the OP, because we're able to shove 98s profitably most of the time. I'm almost always folding out the bottom of my range here because if you dont know BB is decent/a reg/not dumb than its not worth shoving the bottom couple hands in a percieved reasonable range because people suck/margin of error in this spot w/ stacks.

Re: 16: I thought this was a fairly standard push
 

loooooool

Re: 16: I thought this was a fairly standard push
 

Just to the people defending OP because of the strategic perspective - gaining chiplead and advantage being able to gain EV next hands;
If the BB is a reg who's folding AK and he knows you're a reg, he can jam you blind next hand and the hand after that for the same reason. This being the marginal shove that it is, I don't see how it's gonna change any situation. That makes the risk/reward minimal. And yeah with idiot average call ranges I don't really see how you guys as $16 regs would shove here, definitely being a high variance move. If the shorties call, yeah you're also jeopardized.

Re: 16: I thought this was a fairly standard push
 

This is a sick discussion. Personally I don't know squat about ICM and might be scared it was a movie with Nicolas Cage.

I think i would normally fold in this position under the thought that I have 9 high and am butting heads with da chip leada. but i totally understand the concept of stealing the chip lead and the chip leader needing a huge hand to call.

The only thing is though, that when you have 9 high, unless the short stack calls with AK or something your going to be pretty behind and on some occasions not able to hit one over card. Thats what scares me the most, getting the money in and needing to hit two pair or better to win.

But more discussion please. and could someone explain how you arrive at the -0.5% average return on this?

Re: 16: I thought this was a fairly standard push
 

i fold...

you want to put pressure on the short stacks, not the CL. its a lot better to shove 97s into two shorties and let one of them wake up with a hand rather then the CL

Re: 16: I thought this was a fairly standard push
 

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Just to the people defending OP because of the strategic perspective - gaining chiplead and advantage being able to gain EV next hands;
If the BB is a reg who's folding AK and he knows you're a reg, he can jam you blind next hand and the hand after that for the same reason. This being the marginal shove that it is, I don't see how it's gonna change any situation. That makes the risk/reward minimal. And yeah with idiot average call ranges I don't really see how you guys as $16 regs would shove here, definitely being a high variance move. If the shorties call, yeah you're also jeopardized.

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It's sort of a redundant hypothetical situation since if the BB is a reg the 97s push is pretty easy. But, even if that reg pushed ATC the next hand, you still gained EV by stealing the CL. This is because you can call him wider, infact you can call the whole table wider. According to the Nash calculator you gain 0.18 %EV the next hand if you steal the blinds compared to giving BB a walk. I think the psychological effect of being the CL will actually increase your EV a bit more than this against real players. Most regs have the mentality expressed above, that "you want to put pressure on the short stacks, not the CL" and won't be pushing ATC on you once you have the CL.

Re: 16: I thought this was a fairly standard push
 

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But more discussion please. and could someone explain how you arrive at the -0.5% average return on this?

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They were referring to the fact that BB's call with AQo was -0.5% EV even if Hero shoves any two cards. This means that calling with AQo is worth 0.5% of the prize pool less than folding.

If you get SNGPT or SNG Wiz, those programs can do the calculation for you. Otherwise, you need to get an ICM calculator and Pokerstove and do it manually.

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I don't care about ICM or what not. AQ vs a Button shove here in the BB is gold to me.

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Then you don't care about doing well at SNGs, full stop.

Re: 16: I thought this was a fairly standard push
 

Why are we talking about the AQ call? Didnt we have this discussion about AK a week ago and it was borderline vs Joe in the same situation?


As for the shove I think you're too deep to be doing this without the CL and without knowing enough about BB.