Re: 25/50 TPTK vs tay
 

Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Re: 25/50 TPTK vs tay
 

I think Tay could definitely be bluffing here. The flop sucks and the king on the turn is exactly the kind of "changes something" logic that Tay uses to 2 barrel. He is expecting you fold any under pair and possibly KTs. I'd call the turn bet and evaluate river.

Re: 25/50 TPTK vs tay
 

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but with that same token, if we run a bluff, it has to be on the flop w/ AK or 56 or whatever, bc any bluff (or marginal hand they c/r, like an underpair) needs to be taken out of the lead.

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Still room on the turn to push allin over the top if you call the flop c/r.

I pretty much do think that 3betting never on this kind of flop is correct when you have position and when you're not deep. Or unless you can provoke a 4bet bluff.

Getting allin on the flop favors the player without position; why do that?

Re: 25/50 TPTK vs tay
 

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I think Tay could definitely be bluffing here. The flop sucks and the king on the turn is exactly the kind of "changes something" logic that Tay uses to 2 barrel. He is expecting you fold any under pair and possibly KTs. I'd call the turn bet and evaluate river.

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lolz

Re: 25/50 TPTK vs tay
 

once he fires the K turn i think he's ahead a lot more often than most people are giving him credit for. JJ+ is clearly in his range as is the occasional 45/A4 etc. the main thing that no ones mentioned is that the K is def not a blank--one of the most likely type of hands to bluff that flop is KQ/KJ/QJ type hand--tryin to move KRANTZ off ace high/small pair but still with prolly 6 outs if called. and clearly tay is valuebettin any K on turn and river if he does spike it given prior action.

that said i really dont know tay's frequencies enough to know what to do in this spot. i dont think any of your 3 alternatives (fold-call/call-call/fold) are that much better than the rest. i def dont like raising the turn as a bluff as i think he's bet-folding JJ there close to 0%. i'd prolly just yawn and muck it

Re: 25/50 TPTK vs tay
 

Results?

Re: 25/50 TPTK vs tay
 

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Results?

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i shoved (intention behind it was a bluff) and taylor timed down and called with JJ

Re: 25/50 TPTK vs tay
 

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Results?

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i shoved (intention behind it was a bluff) and taylor timed down and called with JJ

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what a slowrolling bastard

Re: 25/50 TPTK vs tay
 

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I think Tay could definitely be bluffing here. The flop sucks and the king on the turn is exactly the kind of "changes something" logic that Tay uses to 2 barrel. He is expecting you fold any under pair and possibly KTs. I'd call the turn bet and evaluate river.

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lolz

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Good call, not KTs [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

Re: 25/50 TPTK vs tay
 

I don't think Tay would bluff against an unknown UTG 2 streets , or just call with AA/KK in BB. My guess would have been JJ/QQ, I think his plan on the turn was bet (for value vs TP or midpair), and fold to a push, but he changed his mind in the process, cause you wouldn't push a boat, and besides AA there's not much to worry about (maybe a bluff with QQ).