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-   -   Absolute Soulreading/Rigged thread #3 (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=503399)

McSeafield 09-19-2007 02:46 PM

Re: Absolute Soulreading/Rigged thread #3
 
http://www.texasholdem-info.com/absolute-poker.html

Google with "Absolute Poker" PWC
and you will find more.

Chump Change 09-19-2007 02:46 PM

Re: Absolute Cheating
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Saying the person basicly retracted his statement is pretty misleading, he said he would not play Mark Seif on a site he owns in the future, but likes absolute poker and doesn't believe cheating occured.

I mean read between the lines, he wasn't sure he was cheated, but doesn't want to play Seif ever again, and wants to keep playing on absolute without repurcussions(sp?).

[/ QUOTE ]

Except if you read what I wrote when I linked it I said almost precisely that. So it isn't misleading at all.

Read between the lines all you want- there was nothing misleading about what I wrote.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps a link to stuckinpgh's post in the HS LHE forum would be good. He bit my head off in there.

Redgrape 09-19-2007 02:51 PM

Re: Absolute Soulreading/Rigged thread #3
 
[ QUOTE ]
How about the PPA?

[/ QUOTE ]

I highly doubt any online poker promoter will cover this. The only reason they would is if they thought they could sway the coverage in a way that makes online poker still appear like a safe place to play. PS or FT may want to cover this though because it can give them a head start to advertise higher security.

We're really going to have to go with the magazines that cover mostly live poker because they will be glad to cover it.

Wolfskin 09-19-2007 02:54 PM

Re: Absolute Cheating
 
The Watchdog and lots0 are related.

lots0 is the other guy that tries to destroy that thread over there at casinomeister. Here the watchdog makes some complete meaningless posts, then some people jump all over him and guess who is first to respond and defend him?

ikestoys 09-19-2007 03:03 PM

Re: Absolute Cheating
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what do you think about going to the media? I'm willing to go along with other people on either tactic.

[/ QUOTE ]

We need a one page 'here's how to explain it to a five year old' without confusing poker terms. Pokeraddict is on the right track but it needs to be a lot dumber. From the articles I've read so far, it has been misinterpreted as 'THIS GUY MADE A CALL WITH 10 HIGH ZOMG RIGGED' and the pokertracker data which is fundamentally the most important piece of evidence is ignored, undoubtedly because it is hard to explain. It also has to be very explicit that this is an AP problem ONLY and not a 'zomg the sky is falling on internet poker' issue, because if it turns into that we are royally [censored].

I see this in my work with media all the time...they take the easy part of the story and miss the important part unless you spell it out so a five-year old who doesn't play poker can understand. No [censored], no conspiracy theories, only what we know so far.

I might have time to write something this weekend.

[/ QUOTE ]

For those of you who don't know me, I'm a 21 year old online poker player that has experienced a lot of success at Absolute Poker for the last year, making well into 6 figures, starting from 50 dollars. I did this not through luck, but hard work and determination to make myself a better player. Although I'm by no means the best online poker player in the world, there is no doubt that I'm in the top 1% of players online.

On a fateful night in August, I found what looked liked to be an extremely good game on Absolute. The player DOUBLEDRAG was playing almost every single hand he got preflop, a typical good player plays 20-25% of their hands. I play extremely loose, sometimes playing up to 40% of my hands. The problem with playing nearly 100% of your hands is that most of the time, someone is going to be starting with a better hand than you, so unless you catch better cards than your opponents or force them to fold, you will end up losing money. I can get away with sometimes playing 40% of my hands because I'm an extremely good postflop player, but I still end up losing some hands. DOUBLEDRAG literally never called a river bet when he had the worst hand. I was frustrated, but I thought he was getting extremely lucky and I'd break him later.

About two weeks later, in a tournament, the player POTRIPPER won a 1k buy-in tournament event on this hand:
Stage #896976330 Tourney ID 1883389 Holdem Multi Normal Tournament No Limit $4500 - 2007-09-13 01:43:49 (ET)
Table: 14 (Real Money) Seat #3 is the dealer
Seat 3 - POTRIPPER ($765740 in chips)
Seat 8 - CRAZYMARCO ($214260 in chips)
POTRIPPER - Ante $450
CRAZYMARCO - Ante $450
POTRIPPER - Posts small blind $2250
CRAZYMARCO - Posts big blind $4500
*** POCKET CARDS ***
POTRIPPER - Calls $2250
CRAZYMARCO - Checks
*** FLOP *** [4h Kd Kh]
CRAZYMARCO - Checks
POTRIPPER - Bets $9000
CRAZYMARCO - Calls $9000
*** TURN *** [4h Kd Kh] [7s]
CRAZYMARCO - Checks
POTRIPPER - Bets $13500
CRAZYMARCO - All-In(Raise) $200310 to $200310
POTRIPPER - Calls $186810
*** RIVER *** [4h Kd Kh 7s] [5s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
POTRIPPER - Shows [10c 9c] (One pair, kings)
CRAZYMARCO - Shows [9h 2h] (One pair, kings)
POTRIPPER Collects $428520 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot($428520)
Board [4h Kd Kh 7s 5s]
Seat 3: POTRIPPER (dealer) (small blind) won Total ($428520) HI:($428520) with One pair, kings(ten kicker) [10c 9c - B:Kh,B:Kd,P:10c,P:9c,B:7s]
Seat 8: CRAZYMARCO (big blind) HI:lost with One pair, kings [9h 2h - B:Kh,B:Kd,P:9h,B:7s,B:5s]

So what does that hand mean? It means that this player made a call with absolutely no hand and just happened to be right. Now, I'm all for fish getting lucky once in awhile, but this hand sparked more investigation, and what was found was truly disturbing. Hand histories from the tournament from multiple players were gathered and analyzed. It was found that POTRIPPER played exactly like DOUBLEDRAG. The only times POTRIPPER folded preflop was when someone else had AA, KK or QQ. POTRIPPER also never called a river bet when he was beat.

When the news of POTRIPPER came out, I immediately thought of DOUBLEDRAG and submitted my hand histories of that session to some of my peers. They all concluded that it was beyond improbable that POTRIPPER or DOUBLEDRAG knew what there opponents cards were. They all concluded that it was the only explanation for both players playing nearly all their hands, except when someone hand a monster preflop. They all concluded it was the only explanation for the fact they never called a river bet when they were beat, as this is extremely unlikely when you are playing so many hands.

So what is happening in response to this? Absolute Poker claims that it is investigating the matter, but many people do not trust the site to admit that someone was able to cheat on this magnitude, as it would hurt their business severely. The only way to make sure that Absolute handles this situation promptly and fairly is to escalate this story in the poker media and to keep harassing Absolute's security and customer service department. You may not have been cheated out of any money, but a strike this deep into online poker's integrity is bad for everyone and needs to be dealt with promptly.

Just posted on my blog too...in da profile

I'd be happy to take suggestions on how to make it better.

ikestoys 09-19-2007 03:04 PM

Re: Absolute Cheating
 
Oh i added a link for more "technical analysis" at the end to 2+2

Deuce2High 09-19-2007 03:07 PM

Re: Absolute Soulreading/Rigged thread #3
 
I realise that most of their security team is obviously mentally incapable of handling this problem in a 100% effecient manner but at the same time we haven't even recieved confirmation from absolute that we are even on the same page as them regarding the evidence and what's actually even going on; have we?

regardless, im just trying to play devils advocate here, so that we can all try to get to the bottom of this problem without damaging our livelyhoods. i'm all for going to the media and exposing the [censored] out of absolute if they continue to turn a blind eye, and it should be done to an extent anyways. but the important thing is that the people who were robbed get their money back, this doesn't happen again, and damage control.

unlike many of us whose livelyhood depend on poker, especially online, most people in this country/world will simply never play online again if they hear about this situation (or possibly just hear about it in the wrong way); and online poker will probably takes its biggest hit since uigea if the right media outlets approach the situation the wrong way. At the same time, everyone has a right to know about this and to protect themselves from the situation.

sethypooh21 09-19-2007 03:08 PM

Re: Absolute Cheating
 
Too complicated, Ike.

Redgrape 09-19-2007 03:09 PM

Re: Absolute Soulreading/Rigged thread #3
 
Someone should email AP threatening to sue. Is this for some reason a bad idea?

crashjr 09-19-2007 03:10 PM

Re: Absolute Cheating
 
[ QUOTE ]
They all concluded that it was beyond improbable that POTRIPPER or DOUBLEDRAG knew what there opponents cards were

[/ QUOTE ]

This sentence should be taken out back and shot.

Instead, try "It was obvious to everyone that POTRIPPER and DOUBLEDRAG knew what their opponents' cards were."

Also, establish the credibility of your "peers" by saying "who are some of the best players I know. These players, besides being quite accomplished in the poker world, include professionals such as lawyers, engineers, [insert other professions of HSL 2+2ers here]."


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