Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

Anyone have the hard numbers on what % of federal grand jury indictments lead to guilty pleas and/or guilty sentences?

Isn't it 80-90%?

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

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Not that it means much but:

Anderson's attorney, Mark Geragos, said the trainer didn't cooperate with the grand jury that indicted Bonds.

"This indictment came out of left field," Geragos said. "Frankly I'm aghast. It looks like the government misled me and Greg as well, saying this case couldn't go forward without him."

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... and just before he was about to move to DH.

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

X-posted from the "official thread"

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From the old thread as said by RedBean:

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Our points are rather simple:

Mine:
-Barry Bonds never violated the MLB Steroid Policy.
-Barry Bonds did not admit using steroids in his Grand Jury testimony.
-Barry Bonds has not been indicted, much less convicted of any crime related to steroids.
-Barry Bonds has not been proven to have cheated the game of baseball, as defined by the rules that govern the game.

My points are matter of fact.



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One of these things is not like the other...

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

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This just in:

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) -- A potential suicide jumper who has spent the past half hour weeping uncontrollably has snarled traffic on the Bay Bridge.

Due to his marked despair, police have been unable to communicate with the young man, who has been identified only as "Red Bean" and who is wearing nothing but a Barry Bonds jersey and what appear to be Superman underoos.

More information as it develops.

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This is the funniest thing I have ever read.

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You must have a miserable life or a horrible sense of humour.

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

So the fact that the govt. spent millions of taxpayers money and after 4+ years finally reached an indictment after 3+ tries(my numbers could be off), you would rate that as a plus to your argument?

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

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Can someone in the know summarize what this forum generally thinks of Bonds? Like should he do time?

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an indictment is just charges being brought against him - he hasn't been found guilty of anything yet.

if he's found guilty, I dunno...seems silly for him to go to prison; but at the same time you can't really have guys lying to grand juries and get away with it

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Don't think you quite hit it...

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

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This just in:

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) -- A potential suicide jumper who has spent the past half hour weeping uncontrollably has snarled traffic on the Bay Bridge.

Due to his marked despair, police have been unable to communicate with the young man, who has been identified only as "Red Bean" and who is wearing nothing but a Barry Bonds jersey and what appear to be Superman underoos.

More information as it develops.

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This is the funniest thing I have ever read.

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You must have a miserable life or a horrible sense of humour.

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k. Thanks for the .02.

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

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So the fact that the govt. spent millions of taxpayers money and after 4+ years finally reached an indictment after 3+ tries(my numbers could be off), you would rate that as a plus to your argument?

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I think it is silly it is even an issue. The whole "war on drugs" is silly. I don't think he or anyone else ever should have been investigated at all.

But as far as the argument of whether it is likely BB used steroids? The indictment is a home run.

I am sure that Anderson getting released is pure coincidence and his lawyer is completely honest when he says this came out of "left field."

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

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But as far as the argument of whether it is likely BB used steroids? The indictment is a home run.


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IMO, the indictment is a basehit. Bonds spontaneously confessing would be a home run. A conviction would be a bases-clearing double.

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

One would imagine that it's the end of his baseball career and that the Giants knew it was coming.

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

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So the fact that the govt. spent millions of taxpayers money and after 4+ years finally reached an indictment after 3+ tries(my numbers could be off), you would rate that as a plus to your argument?

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I have no problem with the resources used in this case. Steroids are dangerous to young people and lying to the grand jury in a criminal investigation is a serious crime. The attention this case will get and the possible deterrent it will be (particularly if there is a conviction) on both steroids use and care-free perjury make it worth every penny.

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

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mother [censored] .... this is pre-empting college football live

argh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ESPN shut up about non-sports please

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Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

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So the fact that the govt. spent millions of taxpayers money and after 4+ years finally reached an indictment after 3+ tries(my numbers could be off), you would rate that as a plus to your argument?

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I have no problem with the resources used in this case. Steroids are dangerous to young people and lying to the grand jury in a criminal investigation is a serious crime. The attention this case will get and the possible deterrent it will be (particularly if there is a conviction) on both steroids use and care-free perjury make it worth every penny.

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There are a ton of dangerous things in the world. Does not mean we should spend millions and millions on each of them. Personal Responsibility ftw.

/derail

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

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So the fact that the govt. spent millions of taxpayers money and after 4+ years finally reached an indictment after 3+ tries(my numbers could be off), you would rate that as a plus to your argument?

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I have no problem with the resources used in this case. Steroids are dangerous to young people and lying to the grand jury in a criminal investigation is a serious crime. The attention this case will get and the possible deterrent it will be (particularly if there is a conviction) on both steroids use and care-free perjury make it worth every penny.

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There are a ton of dangerous things in the world. Does not mean we should spend millions and millions on each of them. Personal Responsibility ftw.

/derail

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If you want to look at waste, just look to the Middle East. I'm not arguing about being over there, just the stealing by the contractors, etc. The amount spent over BB isn't even a blip on the radar.

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

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So the fact that the govt. spent millions of taxpayers money and after 4+ years finally reached an indictment after 3+ tries(my numbers could be off), you would rate that as a plus to your argument?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no problem with the resources used in this case. Steroids are dangerous to young people and lying to the grand jury in a criminal investigation is a serious crime. The attention this case will get and the possible deterrent it will be (particularly if there is a conviction) on both steroids use and care-free perjury make it worth every penny.

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There are a ton of dangerous things in the world. Does not mean we should spend millions and millions on each of them. Personal Responsibility ftw.

/derail

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If you want to look at waste, just look to the Middle East. I'm not arguing about being over there, just the stealing by the contractors, etc. The amount spent over BB isn't even a blip on the radar.

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guys, quit it, or else I'll start talking about Tom Brady

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

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So the fact that the govt. spent millions of taxpayers money and after 4+ years finally reached an indictment after 3+ tries(my numbers could be off), you would rate that as a plus to your argument?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no problem with the resources used in this case. Steroids are dangerous to young people and lying to the grand jury in a criminal investigation is a serious crime. The attention this case will get and the possible deterrent it will be (particularly if there is a conviction) on both steroids use and care-free perjury make it worth every penny.

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There are a ton of dangerous things in the world. Does not mean we should spend millions and millions on each of them. Personal Responsibility ftw.

/derail

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If you want to look at waste, just look to the Middle East. I'm not arguing about being over there, just the stealing by the contractors, etc. The amount spent over BB isn't even a blip on the radar.

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He could have just told the truth from the beginning. That might have saved a few of our government dollars. Telling the truth is important; it makes law enforcement (something somewhat necessary) more efficient (regardless of whether its acutally efficient). There are sound policy considerations in favor of prosecuting (at least some) potential perjury.

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

I am going to try and cover off on all the Bonds apologists excuses for everything that could happen:

Bonds gets indicted: Took them 3 years and millions of $'s

Bonds has an old positive test we never heard about: planted obviously

Canseco has a picture of him sticking a syringe labeled "Steroids-the Illegal Kind" into the ass of Bonds, who we can tell it is Bonds because he is turned smiling at the camera and it was filed under "Fun Times at Balco" in Greg Andersons files: photoshopped.

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

This is only hours old and ESPN has gone totally overboard already. They've also announced they're doing some sort of special tomorrow at Noon. A couple of times the talking heads have just run out of [censored] to talk about, yet the coverage continues. I'd care more if they didn't keep on beating this horse I think.

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

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[ QUOTE ]
So the fact that the govt. spent millions of taxpayers money and after 4+ years finally reached an indictment after 3+ tries(my numbers could be off), you would rate that as a plus to your argument?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no problem with the resources used in this case. Steroids are dangerous to young people and lying to the grand jury in a criminal investigation is a serious crime. The attention this case will get and the possible deterrent it will be (particularly if there is a conviction) on both steroids use and care-free perjury make it worth every penny.

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Wow.

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

Well if you're sick of it after three hours, just imagine how you'll be in a year.

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

Big deal. OJ got indicted for double-murder once...lot of good that did.


Indictment != Conviction


Call me in a year or two.

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

i'm here, big deal. if bonds is proven to have done steroids i will be extremely... not surprised. just like i've said all along.

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

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Actually I think it was because Bonds is the only athlete who they questioned about steroid use who denied it.

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What do you mean?

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I mean that the other athletes they say tested positive all either weren't questioned or admitted to it when questioned back in '03.

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I'm even more confused as to what your point is but Tammy Thomas and Trevor Graham were indicted for Grand Jury perjury and Marion Jones pled guilty to lying to BALCO investigators.

The whole it was flaxseed oil and I didn't know defense was not unique to Bonds, it was apparently the standard line from BALCO athletes.

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

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Anyone have the hard numbers on what % of federal grand jury indictments lead to guilty pleas and/or guilty sentences?

Isn't it 80-90%?

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yes, but you can evaluate stuff at face value too. this isn't like the michael vick indictment. a braindead retard could tell that vick was boned. it looks more questionable here, though it would still be surprising if the case wasn't pretty strong.

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

I can't see anyone being surprised.

I liked this quote from the article

"He could know other BBs,'' Bonds replied when shown the (steroid) calendar during his testimony.

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

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I can't see anyone being surprised.

I liked this quote from the article

"He could know other BBs,'' Bonds replied when shown the (steroid) calendar during his testimony.

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Bret Boone LDO

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

Ok...does this mean that the chance that ANY team signs Bonds this year is like 0%.

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

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So the fact that the govt. spent millions of taxpayers money and after 4+ years finally reached an indictment after 3+ tries(my numbers could be off), you would rate that as a plus to your argument?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no problem with the resources used in this case. Steroids are dangerous to young people and lying to the grand jury in a criminal investigation is a serious crime. The attention this case will get and the possible deterrent it will be (particularly if there is a conviction) on both steroids use and care-free perjury make it worth every penny.

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Wow.

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Exactly. He broker the law. Apparently you believe that celebrities are above the law because it is too expensive to prosecute them.... or is it that you believe that perjury and obstruction of justice should be legal? Steroids could be another matter if you are a libertarian, but that is not what he is charged with -- and even a libertarian could see the benefit of telling children and young athletes that steroids are bad.

As has been said, thirty minutes in Iraq pays for several Bonds prosecutions.

A little law school for you:

What are the theoretical purpose of the criminal law and the punishment imposed by it? Typically one or more of the following.

(1) Deterrence (both general and specific)
(2) Incapacitation
(3) Rehabilitation

Incapacitation serves little purpose here. Not sure rehabilitation is possible in the case of Bonds... But there is a ton of deterrence -- at least of the general type.

Shall I go on?

Wow indeed.

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

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Anyone have the hard numbers on what % of federal grand jury indictments lead to guilty pleas and/or guilty sentences?

Isn't it 80-90%?

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yes, but you can evaluate stuff at face value too. this isn't like the michael vick indictment. a braindead retard could tell that vick was boned. it looks more questionable here, though it would still be surprising if the case wasn't pretty strong.

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Actually, it's above 95%.

The feds typically do not lay all their cards on the table in the indictment, either.

While some would say anytime the feds go after a "name" person, it's just because they're trying to get headlines -- it's more appropriate to say that no federal prosecutor is likely to ever risk their entire DOJ future by bringing an indictment against a "name" person that isn't going to stick.

Does this mean Bonds is 100% guilty? No. It does mean that the feds actually believe they have a pretty much airtight case.

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

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Exactly. He broker the law.

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A little law school for you :

Indictment != BROKE THE LAW GUILTY LOCK HIM UP MARTYR HIM HE IS THE CAUSE OF LIFES PROBLEMS MAYBE BONDS GOING TO PRISON WILL CURE CANCER

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

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Exactly. He broker the law.

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A little law school for you :

Indictment != BROKE THE LAW GUILTY LOCK HIM UP MARTYR HIM HE IS THE CAUSE OF LIFES PROBLEMS MAYBE BONDS GOING TO PRISON WILL CURE CANCER

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Wow. Roid rage?


Never said indictment = broke the law. Broke the law was my own conclusion... and I don't think I am taking too big a leap.

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

LOL ROID RAGE

GOOD ONE NEVER HEARD THAT BEFORE, VERY ORIGINAL CONTENT

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

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This is only hours old and ESPN has gone totally overboard already. They've also announced they're doing some sort of special tomorrow at Noon. A couple of times the talking heads have just run out of [censored] to talk about, yet the coverage continues. I'd care more if they didn't keep on beating this horse I think.

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BUT HOW AM I GOING TO FIND OUT HOW A-ROD'S SECRET POSSIBLY TALKS WITH THE YANKEES MAY OR MAY NOT BE GOING????

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

I just heard a great quote on another message board:

"Bonds has a lot of nerve being indicted while A-rod is still working out the details of his new contract...how selfish"

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

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So the fact that the govt. spent millions of taxpayers money and after 4+ years finally reached an indictment after 3+ tries(my numbers could be off), you would rate that as a plus to your argument?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no problem with the resources used in this case. Steroids are dangerous to young people and lying to the grand jury in a criminal investigation is a serious crime. The attention this case will get and the possible deterrent it will be (particularly if there is a conviction) on both steroids use and care-free perjury make it worth every penny.

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Agreed. The object lesson here is, if you want to juice, play football, and if you want to lie to the grand jury, play basketball.

ZOMG MAINTAIN THE PURITY OF THE NATIONAL PASTIME!!!!11

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

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LOL ROID RAGE

GOOD ONE NEVER HEARD THAT BEFORE, VERY ORIGINAL CONTENT

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Huh?

Quick. What is 52 divided by 4? Still at 16?

P.S. Your caps lock is on.

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

all of you bonds troll idiots need to take a step back and realize something: the federal gov't spent more time and money going after a BALCO CUSTOMER than it did going after BALCO ITSELF, a MAJOR DISTRIBUTOR OF STEROIDS!

congratulations, dumbasses. you win.

edit: i made this after reading the first 20 replies, this has prolly been addressed later in the thread.

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

Anyone else find the timing a bit convenient?

MLB made millions this year while he was on the road to breaking the record.

His testimony was 4 years ago, do they suddenly have access to information that they didn't have a long time ago?

The positive test is the only new thing I see in the indictment and that is a major change from everything they've reported so far. It will be interesting to see where it came from.

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

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[ QUOTE ]
So the fact that the govt. spent millions of taxpayers money and after 4+ years finally reached an indictment after 3+ tries(my numbers could be off), you would rate that as a plus to your argument?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no problem with the resources used in this case. Steroids are dangerous to young people and lying to the grand jury in a criminal investigation is a serious crime. The attention this case will get and the possible deterrent it will be (particularly if there is a conviction) on both steroids use and care-free perjury make it worth every penny.

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how [censored] naive are you?

barry bonds isn't getting busted cuz he used steroids, he's getting busted cuz he lied.

possible juicers will look to the 100 mil/5 contract he signed the year after 73* and the 14 mil/1 contract he signed just last year more than they will the fact that he couldn't avoid lying in court

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

how the eff can anyone do jail time b/c of a [censored] game
i mean this is bull IMO

i know its b/c obstruction, but still, it all stems b/c of a game.