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Re: Shannon Shorr thinking of quitting ...

Shannon, great post. I remember watching you kill it on Party as BluffForRent and then I looked you up when you showed up on Full Tilt and found your blog, which was/is a great read. It's great that you are completely honest about your life, winnings, and thoughts. Good luck in your future endeavors.

TX ~ Wow, well written post

Re: Shannon Shorr thinking of quitting ...

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It's funny because all the guys that do talk shi,t after dragging or losing a pot are kinda looked upon as heroes, and I'm a douchebag.

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couldn't agree more...good luck SS

Re: Shannon Shorr thinking of quitting ...

i always thought you seemed like a good dude, and i think mostly of the current really bright minds will move on from poker in the next few years, but i also think "I'll be content with knocking off a tournament every now and then for six figures and getting a little better along the way" is kinda telling as to how your initial run might have inflated your expectations for what is realistic

Re: Shannon Shorr thinking of quitting ...

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Shannon, great post. I remember watching you kill it on Party as BluffForRent and then I looked you up when you showed up on Full Tilt and found your blog, which was/is a great read. It's great that you are completely honest about your life, winnings, and thoughts. Good luck in your future endeavors.

TX ~ Wow, well written post

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Re: Shannon Shorr thinking of quitting ...

I don't post often but I am a habitual lurker. I play nothing like the stakes of even half the posters here, but some of the posts today have inspired me to contribute.

It's true that there is a far too high a number of posters here that contribute nothing to the community here other than flaming and slating.

However, once a while there is a post that makes wading thru all the dross worthwhile, and its these posts that make u realise just valuable 2+2 can be.

Thx SS and Tx.

Re: Shannon Shorr thinking of quitting ...

Rare to see two posts--Shannon and TX Red's--that calm and cogent in one thread. As the cliche goes, would read again.

Re: Shannon Shorr thinking of quitting ...

Two words:

Learn Limit.

Re: Shannon Shorr thinking of quitting ...

This is the best post I've read in quite some time, and it just so happens that I could'nt agree more. VNH Tex.

Re: Shannon Shorr thinking of quitting ...

Shannon- I have never met you. Thus I have never hated you. But after this post, I now like you. Take some time for yourself. The money/poker will always be there. Your sanity may not [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Shannon Shorr thinking of quitting ...

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This is the best post I've read in quite some time, and it just so happens that I could'nt agree more. VNH Tex.

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Awesome Tex
[img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Shannon Shorr thinking of quitting ...

Well said Tx, I think you could just save that and post it in about half the threads with the one name changed in it to fit whoever the thread happens to be about.

All that being said, this forum in my mind is FOR those people... the "armchair quarterbacks" of the poker world... and if you write a blog, win a tournament, do an interview, start a website called shipitholla or bring any attention to yourself you have to expect to hear from these people and not let it get to you too much.

Re: Shannon Shorr thinking of quitting ...

Good post tex.

Shannon,

"It has been a losing one, but 90% of my 2007 losses are from live MTTs (all 40 of them...how do you like that sample size?)."

That's sarcasm right? 40 MTts is obviously nothing, about the equivilant to like 4000 hands of nl cash.

GL turning it around.

Re: Shannon Shorr thinking of quitting ...

Btw in the spirit of honesty: I was down in poker in 2007 until Aprilish.

Re: Shannon Shorr thinking of quitting ...

I dont want to derail this thread as Tex and SS made fantastic posts and anything written after would just seem nonsensical.

Best of luck in whatever u choose Shannon.

You dont know me but i felt like replying anyway...

Your ability to be honest with yourself is admirable. I think alot of ppl are so much quicker to flame than to give genuine replies so not to be perceived as weak, when in all actuality they would trade places with you in a heartbeat.

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Good post tex.

Shannon,

"It has been a losing one, but 90% of my 2007 losses are from live MTTs (all 40 of them...how do you like that sample size?)."

That's sarcasm right? 40 MTts is obviously nothing, about the equivilant to like 4000 hands of nl cash.

GL turning it around.

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Ansky, how do you quantify this?

I kno ur a super sick player, im just wondering where u arrive at the conclusion 40mtts = 4k hands of nl cash. Are u just speaking in strictly # of hands dealt? Surely i am not thinking about this correctly..... any insight is much appreciated

Re: Shannon Shorr thinking of quitting ...

This is an outstanding thread, and the timing for me personally could not be better.
I'm basically so sick of poker than I could vomit, and I'm not even a losing player. I've won a decent amount of money over the years playing low stakes, but it has become painfully obvious to me that I'm never going to move up where I can make the ZOMG TONS OF MONEY ASTON MARTIN ZOMG that so many people want you to believe EVERYONE can make at this game. I have a tremendous amount of respect for the high limit ballas, they really have an amazing talent and gift to be so successful at this game. I have nothing but love for them, no hate at all.

I've realized personally in the past few months that poker is just a drag for me now. I'd rather spend time furthering my career, going on dates, working out, etc. than spending all my spare time in some crappy casino with a bunch of degenerates, listening to lousy table talk, getting sick because none of these slobs ever wash their hands, on and on and on and on.

Even though I'm a small winner, I've basically given up poker. The small amount of money I've won pales in comparison to the other great things in life there is to do. I can totally see anybody giving up the game. If I had seen myself writing this post two years ago, I would not have believed it.

Good luck.

Re: Shannon Shorr thinking of quitting ...

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Good post tex.

Shannon,

"It has been a losing one, but 90% of my 2007 losses are from live MTTs (all 40 of them...how do you like that sample size?)."

That's sarcasm right? 40 MTts is obviously nothing, about the equivilant to like 4000 hands of nl cash.

GL turning it around.

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Yeah, he was being sarcastic...And, fwiw, I have a lot of respect for Shannon as a person and for wearing his heart on his sleeve on this issue. What SS described in his blog is a struggle that many of us endure in the (tournament especially) poker world...However, Shannon was just too dramatic/extreme in his blog, and it's no surprise that people react badly to someone who has been very successful and is now turning around and calling it a "stupid game" all in a very short time-frame and even though that's a thought that many of us have probably felt at various times.

I'm struggling with many of the same issues, but I don't have a large bankroll to show for it (cuz I suck at managing and accumulating money), and yet I recognize that being able to be part of the poker world was an enormous opportunity for me, whether it takes me another five years to get my [censored] together or even if it never happens at all, and I'm forced to quit.

Shannon, the reason your blog rubbed people the wrong way is because of the lack of perspective inherent to it--even though your struggle is real, it seems you should be able to incorporate more of the positive experiences from your journey in poker when taking a look back to assess the whole thing...Deciding you'd rather take your life in a different direction is totally reasonable, but people are going to react understandably negatively to someone who's had a ton of success and now turns around and calls poker a "stupid game."

You gotta realize the fact that you have a large bankroll to show for your poker experiences, and despite your Chines Poker donkishness, your career thus far has been a huge success and you should be accordingly proud/satisfied/not overwhelmed by the tension ingrained in this lifestyle.

Re: Shannon Shorr thinking of quitting ...

Shannon, best of luck in whatever you decide. Ignore the riff raff obviously. I always admire honesty.

Tx, well done.

Re: Shannon Shorr thinking of quitting ...

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I dont want to derail this thread as Tex and SS made fantastic posts and anything written after would just seem nonsensical.

Best of luck in whatever u choose Shannon.

You dont know me but i felt like replying anyway...

Your ability to be honest with yourself is admirable. I think alot of ppl are so much quicker to flame than to give genuine replies so not to be perceived as weak, when in all actuality they would trade places with you in a heartbeat.

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Good post tex.

Shannon,

"It has been a losing one, but 90% of my 2007 losses are from live MTTs (all 40 of them...how do you like that sample size?)."

That's sarcasm right? 40 MTts is obviously nothing, about the equivilant to like 4000 hands of nl cash.

GL turning it around.

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Ansky, how do you quantify this?

I kno ur a super sick player, im just wondering where u arrive at the conclusion 40mtts = 4k hands of nl cash. Are u just speaking in strictly # of hands dealt? Surely i am not thinking about this correctly..... any insight is much appreciated

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It's not a real quantification, just a rough rough estimate.

Re: Shannon Shorr thinking of quitting ...

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.

All that being said, this forum in my mind is FOR those people... the "armchair quarterbacks" of the poker world... and if you write a blog, win a tournament, do an interview, start a website called shipitholla or bring any attention to yourself you have to expect to hear from these people and not let it get to you too much.

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I agree- poker is supposed to be irreverent (we're not curing any diseases here), but I also think you can reach a critical mass of morons on this board where it simply becomes unreadable. And as for the professional players in the public eye, some of them almost invite and enjoy the harassment, like one of these "villain" characters in professional wrestling. I don't think anyone could ever rag on Matusow too much, for example. But if a nice and classy guy like Shannon Shorr is trying to make serious points, they should be treated with respect.

Re: Shannon Shorr thinking of quitting ...

"I've played like a Swedish maniac "

lolol were not all maniacs. im nitty.

Re: Shannon Shorr thinking of quitting ...

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I didn't learn my lesson and continued to play and had one more awful session playing HU criss-cross with a friend who was knowledgable abt Chinese and lost more of my online roll.

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I've never heard anybody around here talk about playing criss cross before. I used to play it back in the 80's.

Re: Shannon Shorr thinking of quitting ...

geez, Id love to be busto living in a Condo in Vegas and playing major buy in tournys, and having percentages of people.

I guess someone has to explain the meaning of being broke, and poker broke

Re: Shannon Shorr thinking of quitting ...

I think the big issue I get from this post is how much live poker can suck in the sense that it takes so long to get to the long run that its easy to get disheartened along the way. Thank gods for the internet. Even though someone like ansky or daryn could have been stuck 4 months into the year they will almost never have a losing year whereas in live MTTs you can be the best player in the world and go over a year as a losing player easy.

Re: Shannon Shorr thinking of quitting ...

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I think that's all I've got. Hate on.

SS

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I basically love you(in a I'm married and don't mean like I wanna kiss you or anything type love). Well I actually mean I respect you, your honesty and wish I were in your shoes.

I also wish I was able to look inwards at my flaws and deal with them likke you seem to be doing.

Re: Shannon Shorr thinking of quitting ...

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Understand that Shannon's "small" sample size of 40 tourneys was playing the majority of them LIVE with a buy-in of 5-$10K which is over $300k alone.It cant be compared as if he lost in the nightly $109 Stars tournament or whatever

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why the quotations on small as if 40 tournaments is not a small sample??

its the same sample no matter how long it takes...just because it took a year to do 40 tournaments live and takes a week to do it online doesnt mean that the live 40 is any more of a sample

all it goes to show is how all these live superstars could be getting the better side of variance for YEARS and easily turn out to be lifetime losers in poker when its all said and done (not sayin this is Shannon btw)

Re: Shannon Shorr thinking of quitting ...

some really great post in here

Re: Shannon Shorr thinking of quitting ...

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I also wish I was able to look inwards at my flaws and deal with them likke you seem to be doing.

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yeah, Shannon, Ansky,..... alot of these young guys really have it together. Maybe they don't even know it. So, here's to you guys, for your maturity, wisdom, honesty and class. I look forward to your generation ruling the world.

Re: Shannon Shorr thinking of quitting ...

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I think the big issue I get from this post is how much live poker can suck in the sense that it takes so long to get to the long run that its easy to get disheartened along the way. Thank gods for the internet. Even though someone like ansky or daryn could have been stuck 4 months into the year they will almost never have a losing year whereas in live MTTs you can be the best player in the world and go over a year as a losing player easy.

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I think we need to define what the long run is. I think the long run is from the time poker was invented to the time poker will cease to exist. Since no one will ever be able to figure out what the long run will be you can't say that people are winners "over the long run" because they aren't. It's absolutely impossible to be a winner over the long run because nobody will play "over the long run". Maybe that makes sense or maybe I need to smoke some kush.

Re: Shannon Shorr thinking of quitting ...

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I decided to let this thread run its course for a while before commenting. It's been an entertaining one. I'm not here to try to change anyone's opinion of me. FutureDoc hit the nail on the head though when he noticed that all the people saying I suck are the microstakes nobodies with whom I've never played or met, and the guys vouching for me are 25/50 ballas like thegrumpyone or very successful tournament players with whom I've played thousands of hands. So many of you kids are just such haters. It goes without saying. I read these fu,cking forums and every other thread is one where you're trying to report someone's busto or your talking sh,it about someone. I haven't played much poker in 2007 nor have I had THAT bad of a year. It has been a losing one, but 90% of my 2007 losses are from live MTTs (all 40 of them...how do you like that sample size?). You would think I've had one of the worst years in history, however, because I'm honest about my results on my blog and there's a post about it every week here or on P5s. So many guys have had worse 2007s that have just gone under the radar. Every blog post is dissected word for word by the haters. I keep blogging though because for every post with hatred I see, I receive probably five emails from people saying how much they appreciate my honesty. In closing, some misconceptions to clear up after reading the thread because it seems people don't know much about me:

1) I haven't grossed the full $1.8M in on-paper live tournament winnings because of a deal I made. I'm a huge lifetime winner in this department though, obviously.

2) I have never played anyone's money but mine.

3) I am a fairly large lifetime winner in NLHE cash games. I killed 25/50 at Party and did quite well at Stars. I had a nice Stars bankroll, but I played super high stakes Chinese poker with Matusow, Roland de Wolfe, David Grey, etc in Australia and got crushed. I had to pay off the debts using my online money. I didn't learn my lesson and continued to play and had one more awful session playing HU criss-cross with a friend who was knowledgable abt Chinese and lost more of my online roll. This is probably the biggest mistake of my career because if not for this incident I would probably still be playing (and beating) 25/50 at Stars. I had no idea how to play the game when I played super high in Australia. lol at this fu,ck DCJ311 or whatever. I know Rob Mizrachi is the source you're talking about. I missed one straight flush when I was fu,cked up out of my mind at Commerce after coming back from a Clippers game. I realized right when I opened my hand that I'd overlooked a wheel straight flush and Rob pointed it out. It didn't happen again. It's funny because DCJ posted the same thing months ago in some other thread. I'm sure he's just some live nit grinder who is pissed at the world and all the young kids who make more money than him. In my blog post when I talked about "dabbling" in NLHE cash games, I used that word because I've been away from cash for a while. It's not like I'm brand new to cash games and just fu,cking jumped into the biggest game I could find with my tournament bankroll.

4) I am a big lifetime loser in high limit o8 cash games despite going on a $200,000 lucksack upswing upon first learning the game.

5) I am a small lifetime loser in the approximately 10 live cash game sessions I've played.

6) I have no intention of playing online MTT for a living. It is just too difficult and I don't have anywhere near the volume to tell if I could be one of the best. In fact, I am a loser on Stars over like 200 tournies but a big winner at FTP and UB. I am only playing online MTT at the moment bc I'm waiting on Five Diamond to get here in Vegas. My blog post may have come across as being pissed off about how I was running at online MTT. That's not the case at all. The stakes are micro compared to what I've played live.

7) I was a big (relative to stakes) winner at SnG way back in 2005. lol @ guy calling me breakeven SnG player.

8)If I continue to play poker full-time I'll probably just take up residence somewhere and grind NLHE cash games online. The idea of that is pretty disenchanting though, so its very possible I'll venture into another career.

9) You guys are silly if you don't think I read and study the game. My comment in my blog was just saying I should probably do it 5-7 hours a day if I really, really wanted to be at the top of my game. I'm not playing the game at this point to grind out the highest possible hourly rate. I'll be content with knocking off a tournament every now and then for six figures and getting a little better along the way.

10) I'm confused how anyone can attack me as a person. I've been completely honest all along the way and never, ever berated a player online or live. I don't even talk when I'm playing poker, so I don't see how I could upset anyone. It's funny because all the guys that do talk shi,t after dragging or losing a pot are kinda looked upon as heroes, and I'm a douchebag.

11) I'm not even close to busto and still have more money than I know what to do with, so the haters can quit stroking their co,cks fantasizing about the idea of me being broke [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] I simply think I could lead a more interesting, more enjoyable life in another field. Thus, I might do that.

I think that's all I've got. Hate on.

SS

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...

douchebag. jk bro, you know I love you, don't quit poker

Re: Shannon Shorr thinking of quitting ...

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...

douchebag. jk bro, you know I love you, don't quit poker 

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Shannon is also rumored to be coincided.

Re: Shannon Shorr thinking of quitting ...

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It's funny because DCJ posted the same thing months ago in some other thread. I'm sure he's just some live nit grinder who is pissed at the world and all the young kids who make more money than him.

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This seems accurate. Looking at his recent posts 90% of them appear to be hating on players like durrrr, ZeeJustin and Shannon. But it's cool because he has talked to Nick Schulman which he brings up in every post where he's not hating.

Re: Shannon Shorr thinking of quitting ...

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[ QUOTE ]
...

douchebag. jk bro, you know I love you, don't quit poker 

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Shannon is also rumored to be coincided.

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WTF?

Re: Shannon Shorr thinking of quitting ...

A regular kid, slightly unrealistic, gets disheartened by grind of job. No part of this is news.

Re: Shannon Shorr thinking of quitting ...

Ok.

So somebody who 'kills' 25/50 cash is quitting poker because he didn't accomplish anything in 40 donkaments.

Ok.

lol

Re: Shannon Shorr thinking of quitting ...

i also fail to see the logic that you stopped playing cash while you were killing 25/50 to pay Chinese loses with your online money

surely if you were killing these games wouldn't it make sense to put some money back in????

Re: Shannon Shorr thinking of quitting ...

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[ QUOTE ]
I think the big issue I get from this post is how much live poker can suck in the sense that it takes so long to get to the long run that its easy to get disheartened along the way. Thank gods for the internet. Even though someone like ansky or daryn could have been stuck 4 months into the year they will almost never have a losing year whereas in live MTTs you can be the best player in the world and go over a year as a losing player easy.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think we need to define what the long run is. I think the long run is from the time poker was invented to the time poker will cease to exist. Since no one will ever be able to figure out what the long run will be you can't say that people are winners "over the long run" because they aren't. It's absolutely impossible to be a winner over the long run because nobody will play "over the long run". Maybe that makes sense or maybe I need to smoke some kush.

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You can know if someone is a long term winner before actually seeing them reach the long term.

Re: Shannon Shorr thinking of quitting ...

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think the big issue I get from this post is how much live poker can suck in the sense that it takes so long to get to the long run that its easy to get disheartened along the way. Thank gods for the internet. Even though someone like ansky or daryn could have been stuck 4 months into the year they will almost never have a losing year whereas in live MTTs you can be the best player in the world and go over a year as a losing player easy.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think we need to define what the long run is. I think the long run is from the time poker was invented to the time poker will cease to exist. Since no one will ever be able to figure out what the long run will be you can't say that people are winners "over the long run" because they aren't. It's absolutely impossible to be a winner over the long run because nobody will play "over the long run". Maybe that makes sense or maybe I need to smoke some kush.

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You can be pretty sure if someone is a long term winner before actually seeing them reach the long term.

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