Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

twins would just play him at third anyway, I mean what other options are there?

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

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Unless the Marlins just want to dump his payroll and care about nothing else (which I doubt is the case) I'm really not sure what type of deal could happen.

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They obviously want to get the best they can get for him, but there is no doubt cutting cost is the number one reason they are trading him. There is no other reason to trade a 24 year old player with 4 HOF caliber seasons already under his belt.

They realize that they can't resign him when his deal is up, so they want to get the best they can get for him. Will it be equal value? Most likely not, but its hard to get equal value for a guy who is as good as he is at his young age.

This is my question, If you can't keep a player like Cabrera in an city with a large Hispanic demographic than what is the point of having a franchise?

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

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twins would just play him at third anyway, I mean what other options are there?

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Nick Punto, LDO.

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

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twins would just play him at third anyway, I mean what other options are there?

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Nick Punto, LDO.

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[img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

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The Twins have tons of young pitching and some good catching prospects. They also could really use a big, right handed DH. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

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they should get AROD

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

Kennedy + Cano + Melky + Some good prospect I don't know about...how short of cabrera is that

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

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Kennedy + Cano + Melky + Some good prospect I don't know about...how short of cabrera is that

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I am pretty sure this would get it done but Yanks wouldn't want to give up Cano.

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

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Kennedy + Cano + Melky + Some good prospect I don't know about...how short of cabrera is that

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I am pretty sure this would get it done but Yanks wouldn't want to give up Cano.

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There was a BP article a while back saying that the yankees should trade melky and cano + other stuff I don't remember for Cabrera

honestly cano is great, but MIGGY is a BEASSSSTTTTT

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

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Kennedy + Cano + Melky + Some good prospect I don't know about...how short of cabrera is that

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yeah now that's way too much

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

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Kennedy + Cano + Melky + Some good prospect I don't know about...how short of cabrera is that

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I am pretty sure this would get it done but Yanks wouldn't want to give up Cano.

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There was a BP article a while back saying that the yankees should trade melky and cano + other stuff I don't remember for Cabrera

honestly cano is great, but MIGGY is a BEASSSSTTTTT

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I don't think "other stuff" includes the 3rd best pitching prospect in the organization who is penciled in the rotation for next year.

Trading Cano is a ludicrous idea.

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

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They obviously want to get the best they can get for him, but there is no doubt cutting cost is the number one reason they are trading him. There is no other reason to trade a 24 year old player with 4 HOF caliber seasons already under his belt.

They realize that they can't resign him when his deal is up, so they want to get the best they can get for him. Will it be equal value? Most likely not, but its hard to get equal value for a guy who is as good as he is at his young age.

This is my question, If you can't keep a player like Cabrera in an city with a large Hispanic demographic than what is the point of having a franchise?

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I'm not sure how the Hispanic demographic would really affect what happens...they need a stadium. Unfortunately until that happens they don't plan to spend any more than they are now, sucks for the fans but what can you do. The thing is, obviously the way things are now they could never resign him when he's eligible for free agency, but that isn't for another 2 years. He isn't that expensive now, and I still stand by my opinion that the Marlins are not far from being a very competitive team in the NL east. They only need to vastly improve their starting pitching from last season, which would not require that much. So, if they are able to get 2 starters for Cabrera, then it would be a good trade, if not they should keep him as he is the best offensive player they have.

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

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They obviously want to get the best they can get for him, but there is no doubt cutting cost is the number one reason they are trading him. There is no other reason to trade a 24 year old player with 4 HOF caliber seasons already under his belt.

They realize that they can't resign him when his deal is up, so they want to get the best they can get for him. Will it be equal value? Most likely not, but its hard to get equal value for a guy who is as good as he is at his young age.

This is my question, If you can't keep a player like Cabrera in an city with a large Hispanic demographic than what is the point of having a franchise?

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I'm not sure how the Hispanic demographic would really affect what happens...they need a stadium. Unfortunately until that happens they don't plan to spend any more than they are now, sucks for the fans but what can you do. The thing is, obviously the way things are now they could never resign him when he's eligible for free agency, but that isn't for another 2 years. He isn't that expensive now, and I still stand by my opinion that the Marlins are not far from being a very competitive team in the NL east. They only need to vastly improve their starting pitching from last season, which would not require that much. So, if they are able to get 2 starters for Cabrera, then it would be a good trade, if not they should keep him as he is the best offensive player they have.

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The hispanic demographic isn't a huge issue, but if you are working on getting a new stadium in the city of Miami it always helps to have a young HOF caliber player that has the same background as the demographic you are trying to get involved more with your team.

Its no secret that the Marlins value the hispanic fan base in Miami, and feel that they one of the keys in building a popular franchise in that area. A player like Cabrera would seem to be the perfect fit to build that fanbase and stadium around.

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/marlins...06marlins.html

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"We are not going to comment on specific players or trade rumors. But he's an awfully good player, that's for sure.'' Several teams are interested in Cabrera, but the Chicago White Sox might engage in the most serious trade discussions. He is close friends with his Venezuelan countryman, White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen, who was a Marlins coach when Cabrera was a rookie.

The Marlins are shopping Cabrera because of his salary as well as their concerns about his weight and attitude. When the Marlins played an interleague series in Chicago in June, Guillen hosted Cabrera at his home and scolded the slugger about his weight.

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Be nice to see him on the SS, but I have no idea WTF Florida would want from us.

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

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Kennedy + Cano + Melky + Some good prospect I don't know about...how short of cabrera is that

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if this trade went down, i would come to the realization that NY would need to get very lucky over the next 5 years in order to win the AL east. that trade would be horrible for NY. basically anything that involves cano and a + sign is going to be bad for NY. even cano SU for him isnt that great.

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

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Kennedy + Cano + Melky + Some good prospect I don't know about...how short of cabrera is that

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if this trade went down, i would come to the realization that NY would need to get very lucky over the next 5 years in order to win the AL east. that trade would be horrible for NY. basically anything that involves cano and a + sign is going to be bad for NY. even cano SU for him isnt that great.

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There's no way that will happen, from what I've heard the Yankees are not willing to trade any of them, so definitely not all 3. I don't think the Yankees are very likely to acquire Cabrera as the Marlins will definitely want Hughes, Joba, or Kennedy in return and I don't think any of them are options.

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

If Cashman won't trade Kennedy for Cabrera straight up, he's an idiot.

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

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If Cashman won't trade Kennedy for Cabrera straight up, he's an idiot.

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And if Beinfest agreed to that he would be an idiot =/...that's why I don't see a trade happening with the Yankees.

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

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Kennedy + Cano + Melky + Some good prospect I don't know about...how short of cabrera is that

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yeah now that's way too much

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k take out that prospect I don't know about then... or kennedy if possible

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

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Kennedy + Cano + Melky + Some good prospect I don't know about...how short of cabrera is that

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yeah now that's way too much

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k take out that prospect I don't know about then... or kennedy if possible

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Trades like that don't happen. So, the Yankees are going to give up 2 of their very good young position players who are starters right now, and a good young pitcher that will likely make the rotation, to fill 1 spot in the lineup? Unlikely.
As for the other side, the Marlins really only need starting pitching, Cano and Melky are very good and they would probably take that exact trade as it is obviously in their favor, but if you remove anyone it's no longer worth it.
Would Cano even play 3rd? The Marlins have a 2nd baseman, as well as several options for CF. They need starting pitching and that is it.

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

Id be OK with getting Kennedy, Cano, and Melky.

Would Cano be moved to third then?

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

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Kennedy + Cano + Melky + Some good prospect I don't know about...how short of cabrera is that

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yeah now that's way too much

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k take out that prospect I don't know about then... or kennedy if possible

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Trades like that don't happen. So, the Yankees are going to give up 2 of their very good young position players who are starters right now, and a good young pitcher that will likely make the rotation, to fill 1 spot in the lineup? Unlikely.
As for the other side, the Marlins really only need starting pitching, Cano and Melky are very good and they would probably take that exact trade as it is obviously in their favor, but if you remove anyone it's no longer worth it.
Would Cano even play 3rd? The Marlins have a 2nd baseman, as well as several options for CF. They need starting pitching and that is it.

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the trade would be good for the yankees and I've explained why in detail so i disagree with you there... but you had some good insight from a marlins perspecive.

In my opinion cano would make a good 3b, but I'm no exper

I know nothing about their CF situation, but melky would be a better corner outfielder anyway.. he has a thick body type and will probably get wider as he ages

Kennedy is a pitcher


basically my question is, you really don't think the marlins would do this? Unless kennedy becomes an Ace this would definately benefit the yanks, and for the marlins they're getting mroe overall talent, for less price...makes sense for both teams

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

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Kennedy + Cano + Melky + Some good prospect I don't know about...how short of cabrera is that

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yeah now that's way too much

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k take out that prospect I don't know about then... or kennedy if possible

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Trades like that don't happen. So, the Yankees are going to give up 2 of their very good young position players who are starters right now, and a good young pitcher that will likely make the rotation, to fill 1 spot in the lineup? Unlikely.
As for the other side, the Marlins really only need starting pitching, Cano and Melky are very good and they would probably take that exact trade as it is obviously in their favor, but if you remove anyone it's no longer worth it.
Would Cano even play 3rd? The Marlins have a 2nd baseman, as well as several options for CF. They need starting pitching and that is it.

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-the trade would be good for the yankees and I've explained why in detail so i disagree with you there... but you had some good insight from a marlins perspecive.


-In my opinion cano would make a good 3b, but I'm no exper


-I know nothing about their CF situation, but melky would be a better corner outfielder anyway.. he has a thick body type and will probably get bulkier and slower once he's fully developed


-Kennedy is a pitcher


basically my question is, you really don't think the marlins would do this? Unless kennedy becomes an Ace this would definately benefit the yanks, and for the marlins they're getting mroe overall talent, for less price...makes sense for both teams

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Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

Dude, we'll trade you Carlos Delgado straight up for Cabrera. Delgado has a huge WARP3 lead, 83.8 to 38.9. It's 100% no lose for you!

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

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Kennedy + Cano + Melky + Some good prospect I don't know about...how short of cabrera is that

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yeah now that's way too much

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k take out that prospect I don't know about then... or kennedy if possible

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Trades like that don't happen. So, the Yankees are going to give up 2 of their very good young position players who are starters right now, and a good young pitcher that will likely make the rotation, to fill 1 spot in the lineup? Unlikely.
As for the other side, the Marlins really only need starting pitching, Cano and Melky are very good and they would probably take that exact trade as it is obviously in their favor, but if you remove anyone it's no longer worth it.
Would Cano even play 3rd? The Marlins have a 2nd baseman, as well as several options for CF. They need starting pitching and that is it.

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the trade would be good for the yankees and I've explained why in detail so i disagree with you there... but you had some good insight from a marlins perspecive.

In my opinion cano would make a good 3b, but I'm no exper

I know nothing about their CF situation, but melky would be a better corner outfielder anyway.. he has a thick body type and will probably get wider as he ages

Kennedy is a pitcher


basically my question is, you really don't think the marlins would do this? Unless kennedy becomes an Ace this would definately benefit the yanks, and for the marlins they're getting mroe overall talent, for less price...makes sense for both teams

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So glad you aren't the Yanks GM

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

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a lot of those prospects are blocked.

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Crisp is getting traded, so Ellsbury's not blocked. Even right now Ellsbury's not blocked. Lester's only blocked by choice. He's not a big deal anyway, though. It also doesn't really matter if they're blocked; ever heard of replacement cost?

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a lot of prospects flame out.

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A lot of big leaguers eat themselves out of a job. Or can't play a position anymore. Hmmm, sound familiar? Or don't come close to living up to the back end of their contract.

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plus, you have to look at what is readily available vs. what is scarce. one of the hardest things in the league to land is a RH power hitter in his prime, playing for a salary that is actually below his MORP. i can think of only a handful in the league right now, and almost none of them are available.

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This is hilarious.

What is more scarce than a young, MLB-ready, under-control-for-six-cheap-years CF that would already be a top 10 CF?

How many are those again? Grady Sizemore? Curtis Granderson? And how many are available? Oh yeah, none of them. You're arguing against yourself. Young, high-productive cheap pre-arb eligible players are the scarcist commodity in the MLB; you have to create them yourself because they are NEVER available. Nevermind that Ellsbury plays a key defensive position while Cabrera will be playing... 1B. Wow, let's dramatically overpay for Cabrera to play 1B for us just so we can give him a monstrous contract a couple years down the road.

Unless trading for Cabrera gets him to sign a below-market contract a la Beckett, it makes no sense, because the price is also going to be way more than Ellsbury and Lester.

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big market teams don't maximize their MORP surpluses because you can't compete every year just relying on rookies and arb-year guys. you can be good at times on a short payroll (like the rockies were this year) but fans of big market teams are not going to tolerate a bunch of down years while you replenish your system or deal with prospects who flame out / start badly.

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That's amazing. It's also irrelevant.

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masterson's projected MORP would be in the neighborhood of 20MM right now up through his arb years. ellsbury's is around 55. lester: 18. none of these guys are untouchable.

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Don't know about you, but to me 55 is worth a lot more than 20 or 18, nevermind that I'm sure Ellsbury's upcoming PECOTA projection is going to be fabulous and up that MORP even more, while Cabrera's will only go down once you figure he's only playing 1B.

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plus he has a higher marginal value because the extra, elite WARP levels he provides are more likely to put the team over the hump, into the playoffs or towards a championship, etc.

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It's too bad that doesn't help the Red Sox because they're already a lock to make the playoffs for 08 and in amazing position to continue to make the playoffs for a long long time, so you're risking Cabrera sending you into the sunk cost zone of 100+ wins that you don't need.

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look at some of nate silver's writing on marginal MORP values of star players for contending teams for an explanation.

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Who is this Nate Silver you speak of?

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if cabrera for lester + ellsbury is on the table, the sox do it in a heartbeat.

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It's too bad it's going to take significantly more to get him.

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

Nate Silver = a writer for Baseball Prospectus and poster on these forums.

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

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Nate Silver = a writer for Baseball Prospectus and poster on these forums.

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is he any good?

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

I think so.

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

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Kennedy + Cano + Melky + Some good prospect I don't know about...how short of cabrera is that

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yeah now that's way too much

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k take out that prospect I don't know about then... or kennedy if possible

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Trades like that don't happen. So, the Yankees are going to give up 2 of their very good young position players who are starters right now, and a good young pitcher that will likely make the rotation, to fill 1 spot in the lineup? Unlikely.
As for the other side, the Marlins really only need starting pitching, Cano and Melky are very good and they would probably take that exact trade as it is obviously in their favor, but if you remove anyone it's no longer worth it.
Would Cano even play 3rd? The Marlins have a 2nd baseman, as well as several options for CF. They need starting pitching and that is it.

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the trade would be good for the yankees and I've explained why in detail so i disagree with you there... but you had some good insight from a marlins perspecive.

In my opinion cano would make a good 3b, but I'm no exper

I know nothing about their CF situation, but melky would be a better corner outfielder anyway.. he has a thick body type and will probably get wider as he ages

Kennedy is a pitcher


basically my question is, you really don't think the marlins would do this? Unless kennedy becomes an Ace this would definately benefit the yanks, and for the marlins they're getting mroe overall talent, for less price...makes sense for both teams

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You're asking if I think the Marlins would trade him for those 3 and another prospect? Obviously, they would be stupid not too, my point is that there is no way the Yankees would even consider giving up those 3 and another player for him, and if they dropped anyone from the equation, then I think the Marlins would get a better offer from another team.

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

Online..based on you thinking that would be a good trade for the Yankees...I have to assume you know absolutly nothing about baseball