Re: Dealing with a loss (stillbirth)
 

I'm sorry to hear about your loss.

Thank you for this story in general. In particular this will stay with me, "Our friends have come to visit. Two of my friends came out for a week each when they found out. They didn't want us to be alone. People always say they'll be there for you, and that means a lot. It also means a lot when they are. I never thought I'd have to ask for help, and they never made me ask. They just split up the time between themselves, told their bosses and families they'd be gone for a while and came."

It is the best expression of friendship I have read. When I think of what friendship requires, this will be etched in my mind. So, thank you.

Re: Dealing with a loss (stillbirth)
 

poin,

I really don't know what to say. That story is one of the saddest things i've ever had the misfortune of reading. I really really hope you get through this and I truely wish you all the best in the future

Re: Dealing with a loss (stillbirth)
 

poin, I didn't know what to say, so I didn't say anything. Just know that you've been on my mind.

Re: Dealing with a loss (stillbirth)
 

I'm so sorry. May the Lord be with you.

Re: Dealing with a loss (stillbirth)
 

This truly horrible and incredibly unfortunate tragedy will only serve to make the beautiful family you will go on to build with your wife that much more special. Don't lose hope.

As much as I am able, I am feeling for you. [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Re: Dealing with a loss (stillbirth)
 

Deeply sad story. Probably the worse thing anyone might have to deal with.
My deepest sympathies.

Re: Dealing with a loss (stillbirth)
 

You're in our prayers brother. Take care of your wife, she'll never need you more.

Re: Dealing with a loss (stillbirth)
 

poin,

My deepest sympathies to you and your wife. My thoughts and prayers are with you, and with Allan.

Thanks for taking the time to put your thoughts down and share them with us. This obviously took effort and courage to write. I appreciate your thinking of us and posting your story, at a time when you obviously have so much else to do and think about.

John

Re: Dealing with a loss (stillbirth)
 

My deepest condolences for your loss. Your story is heart-breaking, and your eloquence in the face of your grief is incredible. Thank you very much for sharing it.

It sounds like you have a wonderful support system, both in your friends and relatives and mutually with your wife. Don't be afraid to lean on them longer than you might feel you "should". Grief has its own timetable. They'll understand.

Re: Dealing with a loss (stillbirth)
 

poin,

Though i can't relate to being on the parent side of a tragedy like this, i have been on the brother side. I lost a baby brother in the same way and it crushed me so i can not even fathom what you're going though. I would never wish upon anyone what i saw in my parents eye's. I sometimes wish we we're in a perfect world so good people wouldn't have to go through such tragedy as this. I don't know you personally and have no contact with you other than just a message board in cyber space, but you're story breaks my heart none the less. Just remember that you do have an entire community here full of hundreds of people who truly care and have put you and you're wife into their thoughts and prayers. All good things to you and yours in the future my friend.

-Brandon

Re: Dealing with a loss (stillbirth)
 

poin-
whats left to say man. If there is anything I or anyone else can do, let us know. We are with you and your wife in thoughts and prayers.
much love
BW

Re: Dealing with a loss (stillbirth)
 

I just found this from Pokey's thread in SSNL, since I don't read OOT much.

I'm so sorry, man. I have no useful advice to give you, and I'm not a religious man, but my thoughts and sympathies go out to you.

Re: Dealing with a loss (stillbirth)
 

I replied via pm before reading the responses. I just want to say that seeing everyone's responses here has been wonderful. You learn a lot about the people that you saw around the boards in this thread.

Last night, I was in a coffee shop and I happened to talk to some guy that walked in there. He was a non-baptised Sihk and we had a pretty cool conversation for maybe 5 - 10 min. He was a very sincere, very friendly man.

When he left, he introduced himself as Gian (a Punjabi name). He explained, "Gian: It means knowledge (of which I have none)."

I don't know, I'm pretty pissed at people sometimes, but I really love them too. There's a lot of beauty in this thread.

There's no life without pain, but there are definitely degrees of pain, and I've never gone through anything like that. I'm really sorry.

I'm not sure what the official term is, but I'll say that there's a man named Ram Dass who is a spiritual guide for a lot of people. A lot of people come to him and say that their mourning and they want to know what to do to alleviate the grief. His response to this is that you should "just keep grieving".

He's learned a lot through suffering, and these things need to take their natural course. When it's "over" (I think, meaning that you return to something close to your previous life) I'm sure you'll know.

Ram Dass suffered a stroke that left him I think paralyzed. He's in a wheelchair now, he can't drive a sports car or do tai chi, like he used to. He was a very very spiritual, very wise man at the time of his stoke, and even he, for a brief time, lost faith in God. This is someone who deals with the pain and fear of dying people quite regularly.

So I guess what I'm getting at here is that if you lose faith at this time, you're not a failure. I don't even think that it's something that you should fixate on if it starts to slip, unless you personally feel the need to do that.

---

lol, on a more mundane level, if you decide to get hammered do your best to stay away from people that you may feel embarassed about the next day. General rule of thumb: guy friends = good, mother in law = bad. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Take care, you're in my thoughts.
--Dave.

Re: Dealing with a loss (stillbirth)
 

Long time lurker here with two young kids who just had to post. Your story has moved me more than anything I have ever read. I am truly sorry for your loss.

The eloquence of your OP is breathtaking and heartbreaking but it also shows you do have the strength to make it through this. I cannot begin to imagine that I would be able to cope with a fraction of your pain.

To you and your wife - my thoughts are with you.

Re: Dealing with a loss (stillbirth)
 

I read this thread yesterday and didn't respond because I didn't know what to say. I still don't. It's clear that you love your son very much. I'm sorry for your loss and wish only the best for you and your wife.

Re: Dealing with a loss (stillbirth)
 

[ QUOTE ]
This post made me cry. I'm so sorry for your loss.


[/ QUOTE ]

I am in awe of the strength that posting this must have taken. I truly hope that you find a way to deal with this tragic loss.

I would like to post more, but I am lost for words.

Sorry.

Re: Dealing with a loss (stillbirth)
 

Man, I am so sorry. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: Dealing with a loss (stillbirth)
 

Tough one dude. I've been there.

Re: Dealing with a loss (stillbirth)
 

My condolences to both your wife and you. My thoughts and prayers are with you. Thanks for taking the time to share your story with everyone. It hopefully will make everyone take time to reflect on what is truly important in life.

Re: Dealing with a loss (stillbirth)
 

Thankyou so much for posting. We all know how much of a terribly sad time this must be in your life. You have made me realise what women (and men) go through when they suffer miscarriage - something I never understood. You've touched everyone that reads these forums.

My sincerest condolences.

Re: Dealing with a loss (stillbirth)
 

Poincaraux,

I read your post this morning... I cried.
I talked about your post with my wife... I cried.
I just reread your post and I cried again.

Today (well wednesday the 18th) my son is two weeks old. After reading your post, I took my son in my arms, looked at him and cried for nearly an hour. Almost every emotion ran through me as I looked at his tiny body. Words cannot describe how much sorrow I feel for you, your wife, and your family. I cannot imagine what you have gone through and I wish you and your wife the strength to get through this time together. May peace be with you and may the future hold joy and love.

Re: Dealing with a loss (stillbirth)
 

My parents had same situation when I was 2 or 3yo. I think I have memory of them crying next to me. (only memory of my dad crying) this could have been it, Im not sure.

I'v never thaught of how devestating it is untill I read your post.

I hope you get through this is best you can, and wish you and your wife luck.

Re: Dealing with a loss (stillbirth)
 

I tried not to read this post as long as possible, no one likes to hear that kind of news, I wish you and your wife the best. Your telling was very touching and heartfelt.

Re: Dealing with a loss (stillbirth)
 

I just wanted to say thank you all, again, for all of your support. It really does mean a lot.

I've received so many wonderful comments in this thread, and so many supportive PMs. One person even, just to show me that people far and wide are thinking about me, sent me BBQ from across the country. That gesture meant more to me than I can really understand.

This is all really, really hard. I didn't think anything could possibly be this hard. Sometimes, it helps to reread this thread, a thread Pokey started in SSNL and the PMs. All of the responses, even the ones where people just quote another post because they don't know what to say, mean a lot.

Thank you.

Re: Dealing with a loss (stillbirth)
 

My heart goes out to you both.

My wife recently discovered that she is pregnant with our first child. She is only 4 weeks pregnant, so we have not told anybody. Your post terrifies me in that I don't think I could be as strong as you are were the same thing to happen to my wife and I.

My sister had a miscarriage at ~5 months. The baby was born alive, but was not viable. She held the baby as it died. My parents were in the hospital room with her at the time as she was visiting them when she suddenly went into labour in the middle of the night. All of them had to seek counselling afterwards as a result. My father looked had a haunted look to him for weeks afterwards.

The death of a child is the most terrible thing that any of us may ever have to bear. Luckily, the vast majority of us are fortunate enough not to have to face such a horror.

Re: Dealing with a loss (stillbirth)
 

Hopey - having gone through two first trimester miscarriages in the last year, I'd encourage you to wait to tell people until after the first ultrasound confirms everything is going okay.

Re: Dealing with a loss (stillbirth)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hopey - having gone through two first trimester miscarriages in the last year, I'd encourage you to wait to tell people until after the first ultrasound confirms everything is going okay.

[/ QUOTE ]

Definitely. There's no way that I'm telling anybody until Christmas. My boss told everyone in the office at 6 weeks, and the NEXT DAY his wife had a miscarriage. One of my best friends only waited a month, and his wife miscarried the following week.

They both told me that losing the baby was horrible enough, but having people (who hadn't heard about the miscarriage) constantly approaching them afterwards to ask about how the pregnancy was going was a needless bit of extra torture.

Re: Dealing with a loss (stillbirth)
 

My deepest sympathies on your loss... Stay strong.

Re: Dealing with a loss (stillbirth)
 

This was one of the hardest posts to read for me. I'm normally not much of a sympathetic guy and always have a hard time expressing my sorrow. My most sincere condolonces on your loss. I cannot imagine what you are going through. I am truly saddened by this. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: Dealing with a loss (stillbirth)
 

I'm very, very sorry.....

MM MD

Re: Dealing with a loss (stillbirth)
 

Hopey and samjjones-

We're terrified about the thought of a miscarriage when we try again. I think we'll tell some very close friends and family ASAP just in case we end up needing their support. Otherwise, we'll be waiting until we see a heartbeat on an ultrasound before telling anyone else. If we hadn't had a stillbirth, we'd probably wait until seeing that heartbeat before telling anyone at all. From what I recall, people estimate that ~1/3 of all pregnancies end in miscarriage (many of these happen so early that people don't even know about them).

We've been terrified about this:

[ QUOTE ]
They both told me that losing the baby was horrible enough, but having people (who hadn't heard about the miscarriage) constantly approaching them afterwards to ask about how the pregnancy was going was a needless bit of extra torture.

[/ QUOTE ]

But we, our friends and our family have done a good job of telling people before we have to.

Everything everybody said about this taking a long time is right. I keep thinking that we've gotten through things, but it turns out that it's still *really* hard.

Re: Dealing with a loss (stillbirth)
 

I truely feel sorry for you and your family. Loosing a loved one is the worst experiece one can go though.

Re: Dealing with a loss (stillbirth)
 

My thoughts & prayers are with you and your family.

I don't think I've cried like that in a long, long time.

Re: Dealing with a loss (stillbirth)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This post made me cry. I'm so sorry for your loss.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Dealing with a loss (stillbirth)
 

I was deeply moved by your post.

I'm a religous person and I throw my fists up and wonder how this can happen.

While I can't relate to your loss directly my wife and I went through feelings of anger, confusion, loss when we found out we wouldn't be able to become pregant by "the traditional" method.

I can only hope that time heals all wounds and that you and your wife will be able to move through this tragedy.

Sarge[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Re: Dealing with a loss (stillbirth)
 

Poin, I know this is insignificant but I sprained my ankle today and can't move around...reading your post has reminded me how insignificant this pain is.

Feeling for your loss and admiring your emotional resilience, honesty, and bravery.

Re: Dealing with a loss (stillbirth)
 

[ QUOTE ]
There have been a handful of posts that have made me laugh, but none that have made me shed a tear. My deepest condolences.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Dealing with a loss (stillbirth)
 

Poin,
Your beautiful tribute to your son shows just how strong of a person you must be. I’m a lurker for the most part here, but I just had to respond to your post. I really can’t even explain why. Part of me actually feels guilty because I was blessed with four boys. Someone posted in this thread that they had to throw up their hands and ask why. It makes me think of a commercial for a tv show (don’t know which one) where someone asks why we have death, and the person answers “to make life important”. Sounds simple enough at first, but with more thought, it’s a very strong statement.
You stated this is lasting longer than you thought it should. Let it. Digest every bit of it. If years from now you feel the need to cry, cry. Never feel like your through. As hard as it is, it can, and by reading your post, it will make you a better person. You will have just a little more joy looking into the eyes of your child, or children, than the rest of us. You will take joy in the simplest of things in your life, that many others will miss.
I don’t know if you are religious or not, but in a sense, by posting this, you have done a very good thing for your fellow man, and made your child, don’t know how to say it, Christ like. How can I explain? By reading of your loss, your pain, every one you touched went home, held their loved ones a little tighter, gave an extra goodnight kiss, and felt compassion for those they never thought they could. So through your sacrifice, we are made better. Thank you for baring the burden.
I can’t begin to imagine what you and your wife are going through. I have had losses in my life, and near losses that come close in feeling.
When my first was born, my wife and I were 17 years old. I was too stupid to even worry. We never even had any prenatal care. Ignorance is bliss. My second at 18, the same applied. Those were wonderful times, my head in the sand.
But, I was the one that answered the phone at the jobsite with notification that one of my brother in law’s that I worked with (and had been good friends with since early childhood) 2 month old daughter did not wake from her nap, so I had to tell him.
I got to go through the fear of my wife’s next pregnancy when we found out, like her sister, she too was having twins. The high risk pregnancy, the premature births, the months of baby monitors ringing in the night. Scary as hell. No more head in the sand.
I was there when we almost lost one of the twins to spinal meningitis at age 4. Scariest week of my life.
I was the one that had to make the decision on whether to pull the plug on my mom after she was robbed and beaten and left for dead. I will never forget the feeling when they told us the eeg showed minimal brain activity.
And just shy of 2 years ago I got to watch my father, who had gotten mad and refused to talk to me for over a year, was diagnosed and died of cancer, without a kind word to me or my family.

Why am I sharing this with you? Not to try and say my pain compares to what you are going through. Please don’t take it that way. It’s more to show that life has it’s ups and downs, but you can make it through. Through all that I still have my wife. 22 years now we have been together. What I’m trying to say is don’t try and be strong for her. Be strong for both. Don’t be afraid to cry with her. Open up with her, grieve with her, and stand together.
Your marriage will be tested in the months to come. Do not hide from your feelings, and don’t put on a strong face all the time for her sake.
I know this may not make a lot of sense. There just random thoughts not put in any decent order. I hope you can find some tidbit of wisdom in this that will help you, and above all else, please accept my sympathies to you and yours.

God Bless,
Rick

Re: Dealing with a loss (stillbirth)
 

Rick-

Thanks for your post. We've had a good last few days, and one of the things that really helps is knowing that, in all sorts of ways, we're not alone. Also, we're starting to realize that, as much as we've lost, we can still have hope, and that there are still things to look forward to in the world.

On Wednesday, we found out that the parks department was going to put in a memorial for us later that day. My wife called me while I was in the middle of teaching. I found someone cover the rest of my teaching duties for the day while she rushed over to the park. She was there for ~30-40 minutes alone, and was starting to get really depressed. Out of nowhere, three high school students showed up (they were smokers walking around the local neighborhoods on their lunch break) and asked her if she was OK. She said no, and explained what was wrong. Turns out, one of their girlfriends had just had a full-term stillbirth, and one of their sisters had just had something similar. Those three were a surprisingly powerful, and completely unexpected, source of support. It's a bit of a long story, but in the end, they did a lot to convince her that, no matter what we think, there's still good in the world, just waiting to bubble up to the surface.

We used to dance a lot (mostly swing (lindy)), but haven't really danced at all for a few years. We thought it might be good for us to dance a little again, so we brought some music and small speakers with us on our walk today. We found a little pavilion tucked away in the corner of a park where we didn't think anyone could see us, took off our shoes, put on some music and started dancing. About halfway through one of the songs, some lady walked by and started cheering us on. She ended up parking herself in front of the pavilion and watching us for quite a while, and was really fun to dance for an audience. We actually had to stop her from going to get a bunch of friends to watch us, because we were a little embarrassed, but it was all very flattering. It was the first time we've honestly had fun in the last two months.

So, things aren't good yet, but there are some hopeful signs.

Thanks.

Re: Dealing with a loss (stillbirth)
 

[ QUOTE ]
We used to dance a lot (mostly swing (lindy)), but haven't really danced at all for a few years. We thought it might be good for us to dance a little again, so we brought some music and small speakers with us on our walk today. We found a little pavilion tucked away in the corner of a park where we didn't think anyone could see us, took off our shoes, put on some music and started dancing. About halfway through one of the songs, some lady walked by and started cheering us on. She ended up parking herself in front of the pavilion and watching us for quite a while, and was really fun to dance for an audience. We actually had to stop her from going to get a bunch of friends to watch us, because we were a little embarrassed, but it was all very flattering. It was the first time we've honestly had fun in the last two months.

[/ QUOTE ]
Ha, nice.

I got to your thread late, and thought that everything that needed to be said was said. It made me sadder than anything I'd ever come across, be it real life or online, and I bawled in a way that nobody except possibly my mother should know about. You have a way with words, you know. Now I see this thread has been periodically bumped and I thought I'd just toss in a post to wish you and the wife the very best going forward.

This isn't worth anything to you I'm sure, but a bunch of my friends had their first kid this year. Two of the couples had to do it via the needle, and one of those couples had FOUR previous failures. My point is, I'm sure you'll love your next child more as a result of the journey (I predict "her" and not "him" but we'll see) and will love her or him more than she or he could hope for. Best of Luck.