Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone
 

Wahey!! i looked a couple of days ago and it wasnt there! it must of just been put on today or yesterday! finding something else to buy with it to get free postage shouldnt be a problem!! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone
 

I just want to know when it will be available from the big mega bookstores. I have three chains I frequent (visiting different locations for two of the chains) and none have it on the shelf.

Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone
 

Canadians shouldn't wait for Amazon.ca or Chapters - it doesn't cost difference isn't much to just order from the USA. I live in Canada and ordered it directly from the publisher and got it 3 days ago ... and am glad I did, so far it looks good.

Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone
 

There has been some discussion here of Mark Vos' chapter on 6-handed cash game NLHE strategy in Kill Everyone. Some readers have called it "random" (tangential) and think it detracts from the book while others seem to appreciate its addition. No one seems to have had any real criticism of the chapter's content (other than saying they'd have liked to have seen more), and some readers and reviewers have really liked it.

It was billed as a "bonus chapter" and it's meant to be just that-a bonus. It's applicable to 6-handed NLHE tournaments when deep stacked (I've played several at the Aussie Millions) as well as to cash games. In my view, Mark, a WSOP NLHE bracelet winner, is one of the best short-handed NLHE and PLO players around, and both myself and my co-authors agreed that his views on short-handed NLHE cash play would be a +EV bonus.

Kill Everyone will be re-printed before long and I'd really like feedback from forum members who have read Kill Everyone on this question:

Would you prefer that this chapter be included or excluded in the re-print? Would Kill Everyone be a better book if this bonus chapter was not included?

Thanks for your feedback.

Lee Nelson

Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone
 

Hi Lee:

I'll answer your question even though I haven't yet opened my copy of Kill Everyone. But in today's poker book market, it's very important that the book in question stay completely focused on the subject matter of intent. So if we would have done the book, it's most likely I would have told you to eliminate that chapter and perhaps expand some of the other material.

Best wishes,
Mason

Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone
 

could it be possible that you would of asked him in theory to work the six max section into the overall theme of the book? .
that would seem to the most logical to me without reading it (I plan to order it this week).

that is what I would reccomend for a further edition to either rewrite it so it fits the overall theme of the book, therefore it would no longer be a bonus chapter, but how these concepts apply to the chapter.
or I would use the chapter as a preview for a further book,

not from a publisher but from a book lover [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone
 

I might have to check this out.

Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone
 

[ QUOTE ]
There has been some discussion here of Mark Vos' chapter on 6-handed cash game NLHE strategy in Kill Everyone. Some readers have called it "random" (tangential) and think it detracts from the book while others seem to appreciate its addition. No one seems to have had any real criticism of the chapter's content (other than saying they'd have liked to have seen more), and some readers and reviewers have really liked it.

It was billed as a "bonus chapter" and it's meant to be just that-a bonus. It's applicable to 6-handed NLHE tournaments when deep stacked (I've played several at the Aussie Millions) as well as to cash games. In my view, Mark, a WSOP NLHE bracelet winner, is one of the best short-handed NLHE and PLO players around, and both myself and my co-authors agreed that his views on short-handed NLHE cash play would be a +EV bonus.

Kill Everyone will be re-printed before long and I'd really like feedback from forum members who have read Kill Everyone on this question:

Would you prefer that this chapter be included or excluded in the re-print? Would Kill Everyone be a better book if this bonus chapter was not included?

Thanks for your feedback.

Lee Nelson

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see how excluding it in the re-print helps anything, but only hurts. I agree that is was strange to have it there, but the advice is good. I also agree that it helps with 6-max tournies. Maybe mention that the chapter can help with these short handed tournies in the reprint, but don't get rid of it all together. It is also pretty much the only 6-max exclusive material in print so far. It would be silly to just eliminate it.

Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone
 

If you eliminate it now then you would get tons of people who want the first edition since it has that extra chapter in it. I think its good you put an extra form of poker strategy in it...why would someone pay for the second print without it? The book is called "kill everyone" not "kill everyone but 6-max players"

edit: i didnt read the whole thread, were there some pansies complaining about an extra chapter?

Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone
 

Great book, an awful lot to integrate in your play, even for almost all regulars I guess.

1 question Tysen: when referring to your database of low-level players and their average calling %, ... What levels are we talking about? under 5$ or 6+11 or even up to 22? Thx.

Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone
 

I vote to leave it in.

Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone
 

[ QUOTE ]
1 question Tysen: when referring to your database of low-level players and their average calling %, ... What levels are we talking about? under 5$ or 6+11 or even up to 22? Thx.

[/ QUOTE ]
The data comes from $11 SNG's, but is obviously applicable higher and lower. Player styles change as you go up and down, but I bet it would be really close for everything $22 and lower.

Tysen

Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone
 

[ QUOTE ]
I vote to leave it in.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone
 

[ QUOTE ]

Would you prefer that this chapter be included or excluded in the re-print?


[/ QUOTE ]

Only if it resulted in a price drop.

Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone
 

I asked mark vos about his chapter in kill everyone,, expecting to hear something revealing.
instead what i heard was the funniest thing I ever heard by a book author.

"it's ok"
"i wrote it in six hours".
then he went back on to his poker game.

I thought to myself is he serious ?
and started to smile and be mirthful about his answer eheh.

still going to order the book, and see for myself if it is something that looked like it was written in six hours . lol.

Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone
 

Any reviews by Mason or others? I looked through this big thread and saw a few. It sounds like this is a complex book that requires multiple readings. In what areas of tourney play will it help me most?

Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone
 

[ QUOTE ]
Any reviews by Mason or others? I looked through this big thread and saw a few. It sounds like this is a complex book that requires multiple readings. In what areas of tourney play will it help me most?

[/ QUOTE ]

You won't see a review by Mason because he has indicated that he has not even opened it yet.

Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone
 

when will amazon ship it to europe? cant wait to get it

Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Any reviews by Mason or others? I looked through this big thread and saw a few. It sounds like this is a complex book that requires multiple readings. In what areas of tourney play will it help me most?

[/ QUOTE ]

You won't see a review by Mason because he has indicated that he has not even opened it yet.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's certainly not easy for Mason to comment on this book without hurting their own sales. 2+2 has just released a book on SnGs and a new edition of TPFAP after all. It's quite a dilemma.

Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone
 

What part did Joe Hachem play in the writing of this book?

Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone
 

[ QUOTE ]
It's certainly not easy for Mason to comment on this book without hurting their own sales. 2+2 has just released a book on SnGs and a new edition of TPFAP after all. It's quite a dilemma.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'd say it would stick out if Mason didn't review this, considering he gave Kill Phil 10/10.

Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone
 

[ QUOTE ]
What part did Joe Hachem play in the writing of this book?

[/ QUOTE ]

The foreword.

Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What part did Joe Hachem play in the writing of this book?

[/ QUOTE ]

The foreword.

[/ QUOTE ]

If this is true, I don't think Hachem deserves a writing credit. It would be like saying that Online Ace was by Scott Fischman and Phil Hellmuth Jr. since Phil wrote a foreward.

Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone
 

he doesn't have a writing credit. the book clearly states that the foreword is by him, with Lee, Tysen and Kim being the primary authors.

Mark Vos didn't even make it on the cover.

Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone
 

Despite seeming like an unusual appendage to the book, I liked the 6-max chapter and thought it was helpful. Your explanation in your e-mail of its usefulness for deep-stacked 6-max tournaments was a better explanation than anything in the book for the inclusion of the chapter. If your going to change anything in the second edition I would highlight that reasoning for the inclusion of the 6-max section.

Separately, I really enjoyed the book overall and enjoyed the mix between your practical observations on the state of tournaments and current playing styles along with Tysen's mathmatical analysis.

While the advice on page 251 was very helpful in terms of dealing with the hyper-lags I would have appreciated more suggestions on good spots to gamble against the aggressive players beyond pushing with a wider range pre-flop or flopping two pair or better (i.e. is TPGK on uncoordinated flops good enough to get your stack in sometimes against these players? when?)

I would also love Tysen to write more about whatever he wants in poker but specifically more about cash games where I spend more of my time. His two plus two article on continuation betting is still one of my favorite writings on poker and I would love to see more like that. I wonder if he could do similar analysis on hand historys for cash games that he has done for tournaments. Specifically, I think it would be very interesting to see if he could analyze how playing styles (loose, aggressive, tight) relate to betting patterns (bet out flush draws, check-raise bluff, only check-raise with the nuts, etc.)

Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone
 

[ QUOTE ]
he doesn't have a writing credit. the book clearly states that the foreword is by him, with Lee, Tysen and Kim being the primary authors.

Mark Vos didn't even make it on the cover.

[/ QUOTE ]

The book cover may make that clear, but there are some places I have seen it listed on the web that make it seem like Hachem helped in the writing. By this I mean, the listing will say Kill Everyone by....and Hachem will be listed like an author.

Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone
 

Thank you all for your replies on Kill Everyone and the Mark Vos chapter. Mark's chapter provides useful expert insights into 6-max cash game play which is becoming increasingly popular and about which precious little has been written. It's billed as a bonus chapter which is exactly what it is. Kill Everyone would have been 323 pages long without Mark's 25 page chapter so it certainly wasn't used to fill pages. The chapter is solid, and it relates well to deep-stack play in 6-max tournaments which also seem to be rising in popularity although some casinos hate to spread them because they use up a lot of tables. There is a 6-max NLHE tournament each year at the Aussie Millions including the upcoming one in January 2008.
It seems to be virtually a concensus universalis of those that have responded that the chapter should survive on re-print. We'll tie it in a bit better to deep-stack 6-max tournament play for continuity for tournament players, but short-handed cash game players have provided positive feedback about the chapter as well. Hopefully Mason, for whom we have great respect, won't ding us too badly for it's inclusion when he finds the time to review the book.

As for playing against hyperlags as questioned above by JLD, it's not easy and close to impossible without often taking stack-threatening risks. You have to put them on a range of hands and act accordingly based on your perception of their range which is often quite wide. The charts on page 72-73 of Kill Everyone provide an unexploitable re-steal strategy at varying CSIs(m)based on an opponents presumed range.

Yes, JLD TP-decent kicker is often enough to get it all in versus a hyper-LAG who is in the majority of pots and doesn't stop firing hot or cold. I've pushed with TP after being check-raised on the flop by super-aggressive players on a number of occassions. In each instance they folded so I can't tell you what they had, but my guess is they had something such as second or third pair, or draws that were now getting the wrong price.

Thank you all again for your replies and kind words about Kill Everyone.

Regards,

Lee Nelson

Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone
 

[ QUOTE ]
His two plus two article on continuation betting is still one of my favorite writings on poker and I would love to see more like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does anybody know where I can find this?

Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone
 

[ QUOTE ]

The book cover may make that clear, but there are some places I have seen it listed on the web that make it seem like Hachem helped in the writing. By this I mean, the listing will say Kill Everyone by....and Hachem will be listed like an author.

[/ QUOTE ]

The Amazon listing for the book, which is in a format that is fairly standard for web listings, says:

[ QUOTE ]
Kill Everyone: Advanced Strategies for No-limit Hold 'em Poker Tournaments and Sit-n-go's (Paperback)
by Lee Nelson (Author), Tysen Streib (Author), Kim Lee (Author), Joe Hachem (Foreword)

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think they could have made it any clearer than that.

Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone
 

[ QUOTE ]
Does anybody know where I can find this?

[/ QUOTE ]
I keep all my old articles I wrote for 2+2 Magazine here.

Tysen

Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would also love Tysen to write more about whatever he wants in poker but specifically more about cash games where I spend more of my time.

[/ QUOTE ]
I play cash games sometimes, but not often enough to have attempted to collect a large database on them. If someone wanted to give me a large collection of unbiased (observed) hand histories, I might be able to do something with it. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Tysen

Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Does anybody know where I can find this?

[/ QUOTE ]
I keep all my old articles I wrote for 2+2 Magazine here.

Tysen

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you sir! Great book, btw.

Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Does anybody know where I can find this?

[/ QUOTE ]
I keep all my old articles I wrote for 2+2 Magazine here.

Tysen

[/ QUOTE ]

Unfortunately they seem to have all timed out and got deleted.

Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone
 

They still work for me.

Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

The book cover may make that clear, but there are some places I have seen it listed on the web that make it seem like Hachem helped in the writing. By this I mean, the listing will say Kill Everyone by....and Hachem will be listed like an author.

[/ QUOTE ]

The Amazon listing for the book, which is in a format that is fairly standard for web listings, says:

[ QUOTE ]
Kill Everyone: Advanced Strategies for No-limit Hold 'em Poker Tournaments and Sit-n-go's (Paperback)
by Lee Nelson (Author), Tysen Streib (Author), Kim Lee (Author), Joe Hachem (Foreword)

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think they could have made it any clearer than that.

[/ QUOTE ]

When I saw it on Amazon, it did not make that distinction. And I have seen it listed in other venues.

Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone
 

Hi Doc,

You may have seen something put up in error on Amazon or other websites. I can assure you that Joe was never billed as an author by us. His role is only in providing the foreword. If you see any other billing for Joe, please let us know and we'll immediately endeavor to rectify it.

Regards,

Lee

Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone
 

I will.

Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone
 

[ QUOTE ]
Any reviews by Mason or others? I looked through this big thread and saw a few. It sounds like this is a complex book that requires multiple readings. In what areas of tourney play will it help me most?

[/ QUOTE ]

Lenny at Pocket5's just reviewed Kill Everyone.

And I saw that amazon has a few more reviews now too.

Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone
 

I have read this book, and have found it very helpful in low limit 25-75 45 player sngs online. the tips inside have vastly improved my tournament play. Thank you gentlemen!

Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone
 

Any idea as to when the reprint is going to happen?

I am going to add it to my ever growing poker book collection and as I might actually get around to reading it cover to cover, I want to wait for the reprint.