Re: T9s trips river fold
 

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Therefore, it's probably best to check-call 1 bet on the turn and fold if it goes bet-raise.

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uggh. We flop a monster, build a big pot, the turn check is so.....every gets a good chance to out draw us?

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Based on my analysis I believe we are behind on the turn and that our hand becomes the hand that is drawing. I really don't care if I've thrown a billion bets in the pot. If I'm drawing I don't want to bet unless it has fold equity or gets me a free card. Neither apply here so I check.

Re: T9s trips river fold
 

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Players saying that this is a call PF are overestimating their postflop expectation.

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No they are not.

Re: T9s trips river fold
 

Can we stop talking about pf please, cause it is close to irrelevant in this hand. If it is a mistake, it's a very small one, as opposed to heros river fold that cost him 17.5BB (yes, I think UTG is overcalling).

efficacy,
I'm not saying I think this is very easy decision at the table. The action certainly tells us that we should be beat. I just think you need better reads to make hero-folds like these.

And if you stove it you'll see that it's an easy decision.

Edit: Happy bday!

Re: T9s trips river fold
 

hero's fold didn't cost him 17.5 bb lol. if it cost him 17.5 bb do you think he'd fold there (winning 100% of the time)?

evne if you assume hero wins 10% of the time (he doesn't), this fold costs a whole 0.85 bets.

Re: T9s trips river fold
 

I call PF because I like to be in pots with bad players...

I have no idea if its -EV or not (and neither do you), but I like to play poker, my hand looks pretty, and im getting odds to play postlfop with a bad player.
It also slightly depends on BB... If BB is loose/bad and not likely to re-raise, its an easy call IMO.

River the fold is pretty bad, because semi-passive players show up with overpairs here.
I saw the results, but when I first saw the fold I thought "I wouldnt be surprised to see CO show up with AA"

Re: T9s trips river fold
 

AA and what he actually had are all very unlikely. the flush fits perfectly with every street. everything else needs to be discounted a lot (AA based on every street for instance).

also just wanted to mention i love how UTG 3-bets the flop with tens here. heheheeeeeeee

Re: T9s trips river fold
 

We see a flop of AA - TT with a diamond here. We can also beat a busted flush (AK, one diamond). Plus, the pot is freaking huge. Super easy call.

Re: T9s trips river fold
 

Since I read all the thread I know the results.
To be honest I never ever fold river because I just cannot.
But even before I looked at the results my first thought was that this guy either has a hand that beats T9 or that he has nothing.
If you put him on a "real hand" then I don´t think the river fold is such an outrageous fold.Because most strong hands that hero beats would just be happy to get to showdown and the action so far strongly indicates that if villain has a strong hand it is a flush.
But the idiot factor in Internet Holdem makes it impossible to fold a river like this unless you have a really really strong read.

Re: T9s trips river fold
 

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hero's fold didn't cost him 17.5 bb lol. if it cost him 17.5 bb do you think he'd fold there (winning 100% of the time)?

evne if you assume hero wins 10% of the time (he doesn't), this fold costs a whole 0.85 bets.

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Even if that is a correct analysis about average calculated cost facing a lot of similar decisions ,the fact remains that the actual cost of Hero:s river fold this hand is 17.5 BB. So you can´t say that Wolfram was wrong claiming this.

Re: T9s trips river fold
 

Apanage,
I was thinking about Miles' comment and he is actually right imo.

The fold is not a 17.5BB mistake. Saying that is results oriented.