Re: Kinda simple Preflop spot v Tmay in 109r
 

Curtains, what do you mean/why with:

"I'm pretty certain that from a theoretical standpoint you should be raising that hand here."

I fold AJ (and 77 too) utg at a full table with these stacks and dont really feel bad about it.

Re: Kinda simple Preflop spot v Tmay in 109r
 

You should be 2.25x bb raising ATC utg here.

Don't you guys know its the pearljammer era?

Re: Kinda simple Preflop spot v Tmay in 109r
 

[ QUOTE ]
Curtains, what do you mean/why with:

"I'm pretty certain that from a theoretical standpoint you should be raising that hand here."

I fold AJ (and 77 too) utg at a full table with these stacks and dont really feel bad about it.

[/ QUOTE ]

What I mean is that if everyone at the table plays with some kind of perfect game theory, I'm almost certain that you should be raising hands like AJ UTG here. For example you can raise to 2500 and be immediately breaking even if they simply fold 50% of the time. Even including weaker hands like AJ into your range will still give you a very powerful range, so that no one can just screw around and decide to try to bluff you, because in the longrun you will have too strong a calling range.

I dunno, Im writing this fast, and maybe not explaining well, but I suspect that if you raise AJo, the opponents will simply not have hands that should be in their reraising range often enough for your raise to be incorrect.

If they want to screw around and try to make some move on you, good luck to them, they wont enjoy it so much when you have AA-TT, AK etc, which you will have a pretty decent percentage of the time because your raising range is not that wide. If they decide to call preflop, you have a reasonable hand to play with.


The difference between antes and no antes is monumental here though, and I suspect that from a theory standpoint its much closer without the antes. I mean if you raise to 2500 with no antes you have to succeed like 64% of the time instead of 50%. The difference between these two figures is so huge that if you aren't expanding your range with antes in play, you are almost certainly playing badly. From the sound of things, most people here are raising nearly the exact same range with the antes as without, as I can't imagine anyone is folding AQ UTG without antes in play.

Re: Kinda simple Preflop spot v Tmay in 109r
 

[ QUOTE ]
Curtains, what do you mean/why with:

"I'm pretty certain that from a theoretical standpoint you should be raising that hand here."

I fold AJ (and 77 too) utg at a full table with these stacks and dont really feel bad about it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll give my answer to this, I'm pretty sure curtains and I are on the same page. Assuming that you're raising with AJo and folding if raised (ignoring calls for the time being), you are risking 3000 to pick up the 2400 in blinds and antes, so you need to succeed 55.5% of the time or more to be +cEV. If you assume the rest of the table is giving your UTG raise respect and jamming {99+,AQ+}, then the rest of the table is going to fold a whopping 69.7% of the time, making raising with AJo nicely profitable.

With 87s or 77, the rest of the table is going to fold with the same jamming range 63.3% of the time -- as Curtains said above, having an A is key here because it makes your opponents less likely to have hands they can jam with.

Additionally, if you get called, AJo still has some value.

That's looking at it on a single hand basis, there are additional metagame/game theory reasons to be raise/folding a fair amount of the time here UTG, only raising with hands that will call a jam when you're this deep makes your play too transparent and therefore suboptimal, in that you will be much less likely to get action on your big hands if you haven't shown that you are opening with a sufficiently wide range UTG.

Happy birthday.

Re: Kinda simple Preflop spot v Tmay in 109r
 

[ QUOTE ]
I 3bet call shove. tmay def steals utg from time to time and I think 24bb effective stacks are just shallow enough where 3bet > flat, though tmay is certainly a tight player in general.

[/ QUOTE ] bro i dont understand this. algthough we still have a big stack if he lose i dont understand why we would 3 bet, i think its to big of a risk when hes never stacking off lighter and he still has some play. It just seems like ur a little to deep to re raise, even if hes raising light under the gun i think we can fairly assume hes not 4 bet shoving light. Just seems like were to deep to 3 bet imo, id call and probably shove any flop where i flop an overpair

Re: Kinda simple Preflop spot v Tmay in 109r
 

[ QUOTE ]
You should be 2.25x bb raising ATC utg here.

Don't you guys know its the pearljammer era?

[/ QUOTE ]

we are not between 7-12bbs thus not the PJ any2 era.

Re: Kinda simple Preflop spot v Tmay in 109r
 

i just wanna say that there's no way in hell tmay's range is JJ+,AK. it's much closer to something like 88+,AJ+,KQ

Re: Kinda simple Preflop spot v Tmay in 109r
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why is 3betting better than calling? so he can play perfectly against us?

[/ QUOTE ]

So he can fold AJ, AQ,KQ,QJ, KJ as well as worse hands that have some equity against us but rarely stack off.

Re: Kinda simple Preflop spot v Tmay in 109r
 

tmay is a tight player
His range is more like 88+,AJ+,KQs

I fold AJo UTG, but sometimes play 87s.

Re: Kinda simple Preflop spot v Tmay in 109r
 

[ QUOTE ]
i just wanna say that there's no way in hell tmay's range is JJ+,AK. it's much closer to something like 88+,AJ+,KQ

[/ QUOTE ]

i was talking about calling ranges