Re: James Joyce and Ulysses
 

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I haven't read Ulysses, but this type of attitude always strikes me as more elitist than those who claim to understand Ulysses. It's basically saying, "If I don't understand it, no one else possibly can!"

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Not so - I'm not saying it's too dense to understand because I don't understand it, it's because when I've had a "learned" person try to explain it to me they basically just give a list of references to other sources that list sources of people who list sources regarding the content of the book. No one I have ever talked to has had an independent thought about Ulysses including my English professors. They all know whatever they know from having "learned" it from somewhere else.

I'm sure there's a small number of Irish literature experts out there that can critically evaluate Ulysses independently, but that's about it.

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This is exactly what you're saying.

Re: James Joyce and Ulysses
 

I love Ulysses.
No, I never finished it.
No, I don't get all the references.
Yes, what I do get makes a lot of sense to me and I understand what he was doing, even if I don't understand all of the details.

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It's more of a virtuoso work than a readable one, IMO.

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is a good way to put it.

When I'm in the mood for curling up with one of those complete-human-existence-in-as-little-time-and-space-as-possible works, though, I usually pick "The Waste Land".

Re: James Joyce and Ulysses
 

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I haven't read Ulysses, but this type of attitude always strikes me as more elitist than those who claim to understand Ulysses. It's basically saying, "If I don't understand it, no one else possibly can!"

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Not so - I'm not saying it's too dense to understand because I don't understand it, it's because when I've had a "learned" person try to explain it to me they basically just give a list of references to other sources that list sources of people who list sources regarding the content of the book. No one I have ever talked to has had an independent thought about Ulysses including my English professors. They all know whatever they know from having "learned" it from somewhere else.

I'm sure there's a small number of Irish literature experts out there that can critically evaluate Ulysses independently, but that's about it.

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you do see how this is impossible, right? someone somewhere must've had an original thought regarding this work.

Re: James Joyce and Ulysses
 

Dubliners is amazing. "The Dead" is the greatest short story I've ever read. I reread it often.

It's just untrue that few people have original thoughts about Ulysses. I took a Joyce/Ibsen seminar in which people expressed all sorts of non-parroted stuff about it. Hell, even I had some things to say.

--Nate

Re: James Joyce and Ulysses
 

I have picked up Ulysses and then quickly put it back down around page 2.

Totally just like wtf

Re: James Joyce and Ulysses
 

I am in the second section with the dude going to buy sausage and totally checking out the chick's ass, etc. I am finding this section to be more readable so far. Can't say I've picked up on any literary allusions. I'm just happy to understand THE WORDS THAT ARE COMING OUT OF HIS MOUTH.

Re: James Joyce and Ulysses
 

Considering they teach entire university courses specifically oriented at unpacking this book it is no surprise that it is difficult to get most of the allusions in it. I personally have quite a bit of trouble with most modernist literature.

Re: James Joyce and Ulysses
 

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I am in the second section with the dude going to buy sausage and totally checking out the chick's ass, etc. I am finding this section to be more readable so far. Can't say I've picked up on any literary allusions. I'm just happy to understand THE WORDS THAT ARE COMING OUT OF HIS MOUTH.

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I know exactly what you mean. I'm just a little past there and I find that Bloom is much easier to understand than Stephen Dedalus.

Re: James Joyce and Ulysses
 

I've been meaning to ask this same question for a long time. I've not found anyone I know personally who had any lasting impression of the book, or could tell me why it's widely considered the greatest american novel of the 20th century.

I made it through about 150 pages before giving up. I can't say I enjoyed any of it, and have no idea what was going on. Can someone who appreciates the book point me to a small section in there that they think is particularly amazing, and maybe why?

Re: James Joyce and Ulysses
 

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I've been meaning to ask this same question for a long time. I've not found anyone I know personally who had any lasting impression of the book, or could tell me why it's widely considered the greatest american novel of the 20th century.

I made it through about 150 pages before giving up. I can't say I enjoyed any of it, and have no idea what was going on. Can someone who appreciates the book point me to a small section in there that they think is particularly amazing, and maybe why?

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"Then he slit open his letter, glancing down the page over and over. Thanks: new team: Mr Coghlan: lough Owel picnic: young student: Blazes Boylan's seaside girls."

I just randomly opened to a page I had read and took that passage. When I first read it, it made little sense to me. However, if you keep reading, you see he is briefly skimming his daughter's letter and, when he reads the letter in length later on, you get one of those "Oh [censored]!" moments, where everything clicks.
That is why I am enjoying this so far. There are plenty of little details that are left in and, while I know they are important, I can't for the life of me figure out what Joyce is getting at (like the man in the macintosh at the funeral). But then I do occasionally stumble upon some hidden piece of meaning or some previous passage becomes more coherent and it is rewarding.