Re: Weird preflop checkup
 

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factor in that you are going to have to show down a hand to win in this game probably like 85% given this preflop scenario... (just a rough guesstimate, but it is something high like that)

inflating the pot with 88 against a probable 4-6 person field when you are more then likely going to have to showdown doesnt seem that profitable to me.

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Hopp, I agree with you...this hand is going to showdown. And unless we spike our 8 or get a straight, I don't think we can win. So in this situation, just call and hope to get a great flop. I think this should be fairly easy to play. If there are a lot of callers, UTG will only bet out if he started out with an overpair to the board or hit something on the flop. UTG +1 will probably bet out with just about anything.

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munchkin agreeing with me is kinda meh... because he thinks people cheat at canterbury, which isnt true.

but in reality my point (and him agreeing with me is right), cold calling is far superior to raising and i dont even think its very debatable.

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Im pretty sure someone is cheating or Canterbury is rigged in favor of the Corkies, because I am apparently a huge donater in what most would consider a very soft game.

Re: Weird preflop checkup
 

"Except for the fact that he paints a best case scenario picture and ignores the impact that 3 betting has on our implied and reverse implied odds."

Bingo

Re: Weird preflop checkup
 

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munchkin agreeing with me is kinda meh... because he thinks people cheat at canterbury, which isnt true.

but in reality my point (and him agreeing with me is right), cold calling is far superior to raising and i dont even think its very debatable.

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Who were you referring to when you said "he thinks people cheat at Canterbury?"

Re: Weird preflop checkup
 

rethought this scenario. i like cold calling here as well, agree folding in this type of game is bad, although in most other spots a leak.

i still like the who idea of 3 betting and getting the better hand to fold as well here, but guess in theory it isn't going to work out as often as we like.

nice thinking spot, good post.

Re: Weird preflop checkup
 

If you have players behind you willing to cold call 3-bets then it is even more likely they will cold call 2-bets. For that reason alone, I would simply call here. I don't think you are going to win here unless this flop hits you big (a set, a pair on board with an innocuous 3rd card, some kind of rainbow straight draw with undercards, like that).

If I thought I could isolate against UTG and UTG+1 I would consider a 3-bet here - but I would want to be very familiar with both players and know how to handle them.

Re: Weird preflop checkup
 

All 3-betting is going to do is :

1) make you pay a more expensive price to hit your set
2) perhaps get it capped back to you (at least that better defines UTG's holding [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] )
3) bloat the pot for the clowns behind you in the hand to draw to overcard hands even if the flop does come all babies and you're hand appears to be ahead.

In the scenario you describe, you can cold call pretty easily, although folding doesn't suck completely. If you don't flop a set, you can probably just let it go.

The decision making in this hand is really dictated from how you described UTG. You're probably behind PF more than half the time.