Two Plus Two Newer Archives - A TRIPLE BARREL BLUFF

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Re: A TRIPLE BARREL BLUFF

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mack,
-bluff in position
-never take wacky lines and expect to generate folds

regards,
justin

[/ QUOTE ]im interested in if u think the 2 that completes the fd is better or worse for a triple barrel. n e thoughts on this??? i still personally think it makes it much less profitable but blah idk. interested to hear wut u think. do u play it the same if the 2 is off suit or do u think this helps ur FE??

Re: A TRIPLE BARREL BLUFF

I don't get it... is this thread the uNL equivalent of when some HSNL reg posts "AA on AJT board and I get CRAI on the flop. Fold right?"...

Re: A TRIPLE BARREL BLUFF

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i was hoping y'all would run this out for me, since i was trying to help, but here goes.

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You & Maulik keep saying that you're trying to help. The tone you present suggests to me that "trying to help" = "unwilling to be engaged in debate." I hope I'm wrong, please correct me if I am.

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i 3Xbarrel maybe one in 5k hands [...]

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Same.

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at 50nl, when someone 1/2 pots flop, he typically has a very weak hand or draw. [...]

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Agreed.

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[...] we can now say that his range is primarily made hands that had attempted to control the pot size/take some initiative.

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Agreed.

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as far as the flop raise with king high, feel free to criticize me, but 1MM hands of NLHE tells me it is +ev by itself.

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This is the kind of thing I'm talking about when I say you seem unwilling to be engaged in debate. I actually agree with what you did on the flop + turn.

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turn. this is a good card. [...] he is NOT only calling me with two pair+. (lol)

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Agreed with both parts. When I said "a8" earlier, it wasnt intended to represent his entire range. It was rather intended to represent how he feels about his range when he makes the turn call, which I totally failed to illustrate.

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river. FRUSH. i'm not really using the flush so much as that it wasn't a 7/8/9, which would often have made him two pair/set. put yourself in his spot with a pair of 9s. you would never [censored] call here and not just because you're 2+2ers, but because it's a very unprofitable, scary spot to be.

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True.

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he beats a rare, multistreet bluff. all hands i was semibluffing have made two pair/straight/flush.

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Here is where I begin to disagree in principal. Yes, he doesn't beat much you could reasonably have. But you can't bluff a fish. In order for your line on the river to be +EV, you must rely on two assumptions being true:

1) The opponent can read hands, and
2) He will make the correct play in the face of that read.

This is where I think your line falls apart. In my (extensive) experience at NL50, I have found that 1 is usually not true even among the "good" players at that level. And even when it is true, they shoot themselves in the foot by out-thinking themselves. "Yeah, it seems like he has the crub frush, but I can't be pushed around! CALL!" The fact that they occasionaly prove themselves correct only reinforces this behavior. I believe that it is for this specific reason more than any other that NL50 players can't get out of the level permanently. I know it was a problem for me until just last week.

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i can shove with any ace or better here for value since he never has that beaten.

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If you think you can valuebet a good Ace here (I agree!) then you must on some level agree with me that he is not folding a worse hand. A worse hand isn't very good. When he called the turn, he defined his range as being not only some moderate made hand, but as some moderate made hand that he will frequently felt.

Re: A TRIPLE BARREL BLUFF

This is a great line if you actually had a flush draw, otherwise it's like setting money on fire.

Re: A TRIPLE BARREL BLUFF

I think you are givning villain far too much credit. If he hasnt got an ace and he called your turn bet what make you think he will fold to river bet when half his stack is already in pot because your previous betting doesnt represent a flush draw. after all he obviously has no idea about pot odds and is clearly a station.

Re: A TRIPLE BARREL BLUFF

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I think you are givning villain far too much credit. If he hasnt got an ace and he called your turn bet what make you think he will fold to river bet when half his stack is already in pot because your previous betting doesnt represent a flush draw. after all he obviously has no idea about pot odds and is clearly a station.

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if ur raising the turn u can't pussy out on the river if the pot is ~ur stack at that point

Re: A TRIPLE BARREL BLUFF

your reasoning for this triple barrel bluff is based on your reads for this specific opponent and your read of "he has a weak pair" is based on timing tells. You also had a read that this is a specific type of calling station: if he calls the turn, then he will definitely fold to a river push (if river is one of your safe cards). I mean, it's great that you had all those reads, but I don't know what you expect us to learn from this.

I think this is a much better illustration of a triple barrel bluff:

Reads: Opponent is a good TAG and able to play back light
Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.50 BB (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB ($99.95)
Hero ($69.95)
UTG ($14.25)
Button ($49.75)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: ($1) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $1, SB raises to $4, Hero raises to $12, SB calls $8.
I have a straight draw, villain checked, i'll go ahead and try to take down this pot now. Oh crap, SB raises me. Since this is a blind battle, I know he is capable of making this move with just a 6, any draw, or air, so I'll go ahead and re-raise hoping he will fold. At this point in the hand, I decide if the turn and river cards are favorable, I will make a triple barrel bluff. Well, he called, he certainly has something - most likely a draw or maybe even a higher pp (unlikely since he didn't raise pf).

Turn: ($25) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $14, SB calls $14.

this card does nothing for villain or myself. I go ahead and bet it to set up the river. i probably should've bet more here but I wanted to make a big river bet

River: ($53) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $43.45 (All-In), SB folds.

no draws got there, he's seen me re-raise him on the flop, bet strong on the turn, and then go all-in on the river. He can only call me at this point with a very strong hand, which he most likely doesn't have b/c he didn't raise that turn. He insta-mucked, so he probably had a draw, but I think he can't call me w/ just a 6 and would have to think extremely hard about calling with a higher pp which he most likely doesn't have anyway. I, the BB, on the other hand could have anything, but based on what I did on the flop, there's no way he could put me on a draw imo so he either has to put me on a made hand or a bluff.

Re: A TRIPLE BARREL BLUFF

The turn bet is great because you can expect mid pair hands to fold a lot when they put you ok AK. On the river though Im not so sure because in my opinion his range looks a lot like a flush draw + pair, so I think you might just be throwing money at him.

FWIW this is a great line with T9 spades, which is why Im not so sure about it as a bluff.

Re: A TRIPLE BARREL BLUFF

I bet this turn a lot, even more if a K lands. I'm not sure about the river. On the turn I put him on either a weakish midpair or a flushdraw with TP.

Re: A TRIPLE BARREL BLUFF

I could make an hour long compilation vid of my tripple barelle bluffs @ .15.30 deep. But then I would become a celebrity.

OP; I would ditch this on the river. What did he call the turn w/ that he is folding this river? IMO a busted strait draw or a really weak 8.

IMO all two pairs+ are gunna be calling you, unless villain is a strong player (which im guessing he is not). Rarely will a donk let go of a Ax, or weak two pair here IMO.