Re: Mother commits suicide at same spot as her only daughter
 

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Too old. And she'd put 20 years of love and support into the life of that selfish girl who killed herself over a boyfriend of, what, a couple of months, at best a couple of years.

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You make it sound as if people procreate (with consequential sacrifices and love poured onto the kids) for some noble and unselfish reasons. That's really not the case.

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Neither is it the case that people generally have kids for "base and selfish" reasons.

Re: Mother commits suicide at same spot as her only daughter
 

jimm are you just ignoring the other 4 posts there?

Re: Mother commits suicide at same spot as her only daughter
 

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And don't start me on children owing parents. Do children owe to marry someone they don't love because it will make their domineering control-freak parents happy? Do children owe to take up occupations prescribed by parents? Where does it end? People make a lot of choices that make their family unhappy, that's the chances you take when you procreate.

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I only said this twice already, let me say it again. This is my view of what a child owes its parents:

"by fulfilling your obligation to yourself to live well, to find whatever your idea is of happiness and obtain for yourself on your own terms the best life possible given the start your parents have given you, you are also implicitly fulfilling your obligation to your parents. You are making the most of the life they have given you, and allowing them to find happiness in your happiness, and pride at your success"

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OK, fair enough. However, it's pretty obvious that people who succeed at suicides don't find happiness and don't see a way to obtain happiness in the future. They may be misguided, but that's their perspective. Horrible life <<<<< clean death. And the fact that their death affects lives of others doesnt change that.

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There is a difference between the suicide of someone long-term clinically depressed, and an impulse suicide by a silly little girl upset that some boy dumped her.

Re: Mother commits suicide at same spot as her only daughter
 

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And don't start me on children owing parents. Do children owe to marry someone they don't love because it will make their domineering control-freak parents happy? Do children owe to take up occupations prescribed by parents? Where does it end? People make a lot of choices that make their family unhappy, that's the chances you take when you procreate.

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I only said this twice already, let me say it again. This is my view of what a child owes its parents:

"by fulfilling your obligation to yourself to live well, to find whatever your idea is of happiness and obtain for yourself on your own terms the best life possible given the start your parents have given you, you are also implicitly fulfilling your obligation to your parents. You are making the most of the life they have given you, and allowing them to find happiness in your happiness, and pride at your success"

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The problem with this quote is that it assumes that "being alive" is the optimum state for everyone.

-McGee

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If you're not trolling, I don't know what to say. Of course it is.

Re: Mother commits suicide at same spot as her only daughter
 

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Too old. And she'd put 20 years of love and support into the life of that selfish girl who killed herself over a boyfriend of, what, a couple of months, at best a couple of years.

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Ok, so what if the girl and boy started dating when they were 10 and broek up when they were 30?

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Well, then we'd be talking about the suicide of a victim of abuse...

Re: Mother commits suicide at same spot as her only daughter
 

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I take a different view. I think if someone wants to kill themselves, that is their choice, and the effect it has on those around them is not their fault.

You also don't know that she killed herself just over a tiff with her boyfriend. There may have been childhood abuse or a whole range of other stuff (guilt over which may have led the mother to take her own life).

This mutual responsibility view of family relations is kind of bothersome. Your parents chose to bring you into the world, knowing full well they'd have to raise you. You can choose to be grateful and reciprocate their love and effort, but it's only a choice. Taking it too far isn't healthy IMO.

But sad story, obviously

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I pretty much agree with this. Families are great, the story is sad, but I don't think parents should have their hapiness completely correleated with their children's happiness and I don't think children are really obligated to live in a certain way to "pay back" their parents. Again, families are great, but people should be independent, or at least not too dependenet.

Re: Mother commits suicide at same spot as her only daughter
 

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I take a different view. I think if someone wants to kill themselves, that is their choice, and the effect it has on those around them is not their fault.

You also don't know that she killed herself just over a tiff with her boyfriend. There may have been childhood abuse or a whole range of other stuff (guilt over which may have led the mother to take her own life).

This mutual responsibility view of family relations is kind of bothersome. Your parents chose to bring you into the world, knowing full well they'd have to raise you. You can choose to be grateful and reciprocate their love and effort, but it's only a choice. Taking it too far isn't healthy IMO.

But sad story, obviously

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I pretty much agree with this. Families are great, the story is sad, but I don't think parents should have their hapiness completely correleated with their children's happiness and I don't think children are really obligated to live in a certain way to "pay back" their parents. Again, families are great, but people should be independent, or at least not too dependenet.

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Jeez I obviously should have made my point a fourth time since three times ain't enough.
No, you do not have to live "a certain way" to please your parents.
But you should LIVE, and find happiness, and let them be happy at that. If you have had loving, supportive parents and you're not suffering any unconquerable mental illness, you do not have the right to kill yourself.

Re: Mother commits suicide at same spot as her only daughter
 

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But you should LIVE, and find happiness, and let them be happy at that. If you have had loving, supportive parents and you're not suffering any unconquerable mental illness, you do not have the right to kill yourself.

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You can make this point over and over but you keep ignoring the fact that she didn't ask for life so why is she obligated to keep it?

Re: Mother commits suicide at same spot as her only daughter
 

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If you have had loving, supportive parents and you're not suffering any unconquerable mental illness, you do not have the right to kill yourself.

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I would take a wild guess here and just say that the vast majority of people who kill themselves have some sort of mental illness due to a chemical imbalance in their brain.

I'm not exactly sure why you claim suicide is a right, or isn't a right. Suicide DOES happen, you can choose to do it, or you can choose not to. That doesn't make it a right one way or the other.

Re: Mother commits suicide at same spot as her only daughter
 

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But you should LIVE, and find happiness, and let them be happy at that. If you have had loving, supportive parents and you're not suffering any unconquerable mental illness, you do not have the right to kill yourself.

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You can make this point over and over but you keep ignoring the fact that she didn't ask for life so why is she obligated to keep it?

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Because that point's facile and beneath contempt. None of us chose to be born; yet, finding ourselves alive, we all live by codes of rules set by our friends, families, society and government.