Re: 1/2 Commerce hand vs CMO
 

AcTc seems more plausible. when people (good or not) start trying to convince you you were bluffed, it almost always means you werent.

Re: 1/2 Commerce hand vs CMO
 

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AcTc seems more plausible. when people (good or not) start trying to convince you you were bluffed, it almost always means you werent.

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also true. checking JT behind is brutal for the exact reason nate stated IMO.

James

Re: 1/2 Commerce hand vs CMO
 

i can't really think of a reason why AcTc checks the flop either though, seems like a monster flop, yet the hand doesn't seem strong enough to slowplay.. thoughts?

Re: 1/2 Commerce hand vs CMO
 

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i can't really think of a reason why AcTc checks the flop either though, seems like a monster flop, yet the hand doesn't seem strong enough to slowplay.. thoughts?

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It's a monster flop to be sure, but consider ranges for your opponents and go from there. ATc is invincible against aces with a worse kicker and has decent equity agasinst bigger aces(though they are never folding). If he can get a call in both spots it's almost always profitable regradless of what they have. The issue becomes when they have total garbage or underpairs that are ready to give up to a capper...in this spot you can only gain by checking because they will think "why would he check a big ace on this drawy board" and consider a call down with the middling pairs or even taking a shot trying to take the pot away. I think that I'd usually bet anyway, but checking here is definitely a reasonable play(unlike checking a hand with no showdown value). The very fat part of their range consists of hands that are either A) hopeless on a flop like this or B) ahead of you. Not sure what the ranges are vs. the pot size but I suspect that checking has definite +EV against a lot of opponents.

James

Re: 1/2 Commerce hand vs CMO
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i can't really think of a reason why AcTc checks the flop either though, seems like a monster flop, yet the hand doesn't seem strong enough to slowplay.. thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a monster flop to be sure, but consider ranges for your opponents and go from there. ATc is invincible against aces with a worse kicker and has decent equity agasinst bigger aces(though they are never folding). If he can get a call in both spots it's almost always profitable regradless of what they have. The issue becomes when they have total garbage or underpairs that are ready to give up to a capper...in this spot you can only gain by checking because they will think "why would he check a big ace on this drawy board" and consider a call down with the middling pairs or even taking a shot trying to take the pot away. I think that I'd usually bet anyway, but checking here is definitely a reasonable play(unlike checking a hand with no showdown value). The very fat part of their range consists of hands that are either A) hopeless on a flop like this or B) ahead of you. Not sure what the ranges are vs. the pot size but I suspect that checking has definite +EV against a lot of opponents.

James

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Great post sir. Was gonna post something similar but you beat me to it. Yours sounds better anyway. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: 1/2 Commerce hand vs CMO
 

It was a nice post but he did not have that hand (ATc), I was next to him [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I would give up his hand, but its not my place so keep guessing....

Re: 1/2 Commerce hand vs CMO
 

Bah my memory failing me. You were sandwiched between the two Minnesota bastards but I can't remember you at all. Oh well we'll meet again I'm sure. God what a crappy game that was.

-DeathDonkey

Re: 1/2 Commerce hand vs CMO
 

DD,

I have what I think is a more interesting question. Say you had just called the turn (I would have done that), and then your flush comes on the river.

Do you now bet out or try to c/raise? I would bet out but I'm not sure it's right.

Re: 1/2 Commerce hand vs CMO
 

Flop is A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] checked to CMO who checks (anyone donk there?).

Yes. You have a protected pot with the fish in there. Donking into the fish and CMO can at least create the impression you don't want to give a free card to KK or QQ (with your represented Ace).

By donking the K on the turn and then getting raised, more often than not you are up against a range that goes something like this-- AA, KK, AK off, AK of clubs, AQ of clubs, AJ of Clubs and KQ of Clubs. Not to mention a hand like 33 or 44.

I think by 3 betting and leading the river you may run off QQ JJ and TT but if hes playing correctly postflop he could easily call you down putting you on a busted draw.

Donking/ 3betting the flop is a better way of trying to represent a hand that has CMO beat (if there is one)