Re: AC 10-25 River Surprise
 

Easy fold. QQ or QT are the only hands he could raise that river.

Re: AC 10-25 River Surprise
 

I have a question. In this spot where you fold do you want to make some effort to represent KQ or some hand other than trips or do you just assume that astute opponents will realise that you _might_ have laid down trips and just take that into account in future action?

Re: AC 10-25 River Surprise
 

what the hell are up with these stupid ass responses? high stakes forums is getting retarded now. easy fold!? wow villian could easily have any 10 that doesn't involve a boat. as you said he calls very light in position. villian probably puts you on KK or AA. i don't know, but this is not an easy fold for me.

and to chezwiz, are you serious? i think he would repop preflop with QQ OTB like 99% of the time.

he could have so many hands, K10, J10, 109, and so on and so forth.

Re: AC 10-25 River Surprise
 

[ QUOTE ]
In my opinion this is definitely a fold, but a tough one only because of the river pot odds. First of all, what kind of donkey would raise with QQ in this position? The correct move is to slowplay the boat. Also, I don't think the guy would put you on AA, KK, or AQ because you bet all the way thru. Being out of position, most players would be afraid of the other player holding the 10, unless of course you have it. You are also showing strength throughout the hand, especially against 4 other players, so it's possible that YOU'RE the one with QQ. If the villain had only a 10 on the flop, and not a boat, he would have raised on the flop with one caller in the hand to chase out the draws. Finally, he is a passive player and checked top 2 earlier.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol wow

Re: AC 10-25 River Surprise
 

Those that are saying it is an "easy" fold or call are just being stupid. If I'm making a call it's going to be a crying one, and it would be a crying fold as well.

Anyway, how the hell can you possible say something like he'll repop with QQ 99% of the time given OP's description of villain? he said that he had CALLED with top 2 pair in another hand and was being passive. passive players don't 3 bet with QQ even though they should.

Re: AC 10-25 River Surprise
 

By defining a "passive" player, what hands do you think he could smoothly called flop & turn bets then raised big @ river? If there is no indication that he is a passive player, it would be a tough call/fold. However, for a player who only "called" with 2 pairs, do you think he would raise with trips on the river without worrying of being drawn out before the river card was dealt?

Re: AC 10-25 River Surprise
 

This is a call

Re: AC 10-25 River Surprise
 

[ QUOTE ]
I raise after one EP limper to $125 with A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Cutoff and villian(button) call, as does BB and EP limper. Flop comes Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. The 5 of us see the flop. I lead for $400 (I think villain would have viewed me as a tight player, a tad on the aggressive side). Villain calls and everyone else folds. Turn brings the 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], completing the rainbow. I bet $800 and villain calls. River is the 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. I bet $2000 and villain thinks for a second and pushes for 3k more. Now the pot has over 10k and it is 3k for me to call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Frogger,

the 10/25 games in AC are not difficult to beat, but you will get crushed if you make folds like these getting better than 3:1. The smooth call on the flop in a multiway pot probably means trips, and your line looks like AA/KK. Villain could have QT, but he could have KT/JT/T9/T8... his pf calling range is very wide on the button in this hand. You might be beat by a boat, but you only have to be ahead ~1/4 times to make this call. My guess is that you're ahead more than 4/5 times. This is a really bad fold with the price you're getting.

Re: AC 10-25 River Surprise
 

[ QUOTE ]

Frogger,

the 10/25 games in AC are not difficult to beat, but you will get crushed if you make folds like these getting better than 3:1. The smooth call on the flop in a multiway pot probably means trips, and your line looks like AA/KK. Villain could have QT, but he could have KT/JT/T9/T8... his pf calling range is very wide on the button in this hand. You might be beat by a boat, but you only have to be ahead ~1/4 times to make this call. My guess is that you're ahead more than 4/5 times. This is a really bad fold with the price you're getting.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes, i think this is a call, but saying hero is ahead > 80% of the time is insane. It's probably alot closer to 40% vs. described villian.

Re: AC 10-25 River Surprise
 

I was not too familiar with villain, but I can't imagine he would make this move as a bluff practically ever.

If he has a "feeling" you think this of him, he picked the perfect time to bluff.

Post the results.