Re: Borgata PR sports betting charges being brought
 

[ QUOTE ]
I am sure the county jail or state prison is full of high limit gamblers

[/ QUOTE ]
You are sure???? Are you implying that all high limit gamblers are doing something illegal and should be prosecuted? What else are you sure about?

Re: Borgata PR sports betting charges being brought
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am sure the county jail or state prison is full of high limit gamblers

[/ QUOTE ]
You are sure???? Are you implying that all high limit gamblers are doing something illegal and should be prosecuted? What else are you sure about?

[/ QUOTE ]

9" is only saying this b/c he used to be a regular in the 20/40 kill game at the Atlantic County Jail.

Re: Borgata PR sports betting charges being brought
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ian and everyone else charged is innocent until proven guilty

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate this expression.

It means, "We can't throw him in jail until we prove his guilt."

Everyone uses it to mean, "We have to treat him as if he didn't do anything until the court says otherwise."

Of course, we don't treat him that way at all--we put him in handcuffs and take him to jail and make him attend a trial. If he was truly "innocent until proven guilty", he should ask the judge why an innocent man was arrested.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you totally. The problem is a lot more insidious than that as well. It's that all the young punks have the attitude that it is ok to do anything you want as long as you don't get caught. We have lost the ability to know right from wrong. At what point would what anyone think what was going on was wrong? When somebody got their limb broken? When the level of voilence escalated to killing a victim of this ring?

[/ QUOTE ]

Any bookmaking or loan-sharking that went on was wrong. My only connection to these guys is a mutual love of the game of poker, so I can't say what else they were or were not doing. If what is alleged was happening, then it was wrong. No one has said otherwise. You are putting words into my mouth.

It is also wrong for random strangers on an anonymous Internet message board to think that they have the right to serve as judge, jury, and executioner.

Thread over.

Re: Borgata PR sports betting charges being brought
 

[ QUOTE ]
Any bookmaking or loan-sharking that went on was wrong. My only connection to these guys is a mutual love of the game of poker, so I can't say what else they were or were not doing. If what is alleged was happening, then it was wrong. No one has said otherwise. You are putting words into my mouth.

It is also wrong for random strangers on an anonymous Internet message board to think that they have the right to serve as judge, jury, and executioner.

Thread over.

[/ QUOTE ]
Agree.

Re: Borgata PR sports betting charges being brought
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am sure the county jail or state prison is full of high limit gamblers

[/ QUOTE ]
You are sure???? Are you implying that all high limit gamblers are doing something illegal and should be prosecuted? What else are you sure about?

[/ QUOTE ]

9" is only saying this b/c he used to be a regular in the 20/40 kill game at the Atlantic County Jail.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was 50/100 full kill at Atlantic County jail, in the mid eighties. It must be 100/200 by now.

Re: Borgata PR sports betting charges being brought
 

It's pretty much open Knowledge in the Borg High room that Ian lent money, If the Feds know half as much as I know Ian pleads.

Re: Borgata PR sports betting charges being brought
 

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with you totally. The problem is a lot more insidious than that as well. It's that all the young punks have the attitude that it is ok to do anything you want as long as you don't get caught. We have lost the ability to know right from wrong. At what point would what anyone think what was going on was wrong? When somebody got their limb broken? When the level of voilence escalated to killing a victim of this ring?


[/ QUOTE ]

I just wanted to let you know how much I hate this attitude.

I guarantee you my conception of right and wrong is a hell of a lot different than yours.

What "victims" did this "ring" have? Adults gambled, lost, and borrowed money to cover those losses. No one put a gun to their heads and told them they had to take a high interest loan. People are responsible for their own actions, period. If a guy borrows money from a loanshark and can't pay it back, whatever consequences might occur are his own fault. If you have so much concern for these "victims", what about the victims of the credit card companies? What about all the people with ARMs that getting their houses forclosed upon?

If you don't want to be involved in any of the shadier areas of life, then by all means don't get involved in them. Just remember, you're not involved, so whatever happens there is none of your business.

Re: Borgata PR sports betting charges being brought
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I agree with you totally. The problem is a lot more insidious than that as well. It's that all the young punks have the attitude that it is ok to do anything you want as long as you don't get caught. We have lost the ability to know right from wrong. At what point would what anyone think what was going on was wrong? When somebody got their limb broken? When the level of voilence escalated to killing a victim of this ring?


[/ QUOTE ]

I just wanted to let you know how much I hate this attitude.

I guarantee you my conception of right and wrong is a hell of a lot different than yours.

What "victims" did this "ring" have? Adults gambled, lost, and borrowed money to cover those losses. No one put a gun to their heads and told them they had to take a high interest loan. People are responsible for their own actions, period. If a guy borrows money from a loanshark and can't pay it back, whatever consequences might occur are his own fault. If you have so much concern for these "victims", what about the victims of the credit card companies? What about all the people with ARMs that getting their houses forclosed upon?

If you don't want to be involved in any of the shadier areas of life, then by all means don't get involved in them. Just remember, you're not involved, so whatever happens there is none of your business.

[/ QUOTE ]

You realize that you're proving his point, don't you? While there are a lot of things I could say on the subject, I don't know any of the individuals involved and don't want to make any negative assumptions regarding their collection methods.

Re: Borgata PR sports betting charges being brought
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I agree with you totally. The problem is a lot more insidious than that as well. It's that all the young punks have the attitude that it is ok to do anything you want as long as you don't get caught. We have lost the ability to know right from wrong. At what point would what anyone think what was going on was wrong? When somebody got their limb broken? When the level of voilence escalated to killing a victim of this ring?


[/ QUOTE ]

I just wanted to let you know how much I hate this attitude.

I guarantee you my conception of right and wrong is a hell of a lot different than yours.



If you don't want to be involved in any of the shadier areas of life, then by all means don't get involved in them. Just remember, you're not involved, so whatever happens there is none of your business.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have the garden variety attitude of the average street thug...

Re: Borgata PR sports betting charges being brought
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Any bookmaking or loan-sharking that went on was wrong.


[/ QUOTE ]
Agree.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well I disagree. Bookmaking is illegal but not wrong, in my opinion. Loansharking (usury) I'm not clear on. What is its exact definition as distinct from banking loans or credit card loans?

Re: Borgata PR sports betting charges being brought
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Any bookmaking or loan-sharking that went on was wrong.


[/ QUOTE ]
Agree.

[/ QUOTE ]


Well I disagree. Bookmaking is illegal but not wrong, in my opinion. Loansharking (usury) I'm not clear on. What is its exact definition as distinct from banking loans or credit card loans?

[/ QUOTE ]

The difference is when you default on your bank loan, a young telemarketer type calls you and tells you that your payment is late. When you default to a loanshark, he shows up with a bat at your house, to assault you in front of your wife and kids. Maybe two guys will use a pair of plyers on your thumb, etc. Get it?

Re: Borgata PR sports betting charges being brought
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Any bookmaking or loan-sharking that went on was wrong.


[/ QUOTE ]
Agree.

[/ QUOTE ]


Well I disagree. Bookmaking is illegal but not wrong, in my opinion. Loansharking (usury) I'm not clear on. What is its exact definition as distinct from banking loans or credit card loans?

[/ QUOTE ]

The difference is when you default on your bank loan, a young telemarketer type calls you and tells you that your payment is late. When you default to a loanshark, he shows up with a bat at your house, to assault you in front of your wife and kids. Maybe two guys will use a pair of plyers on your thumb, etc. Get it?

[/ QUOTE ]

you have watched too many movies. Yes this can happen, but thats the extreme example.

Re: Borgata PR sports betting charges being brought
 

[/ QUOTE ] Well I disagree. Bookmaking is illegal but not wrong, in my opinion. Loansharking (usury) I'm not clear on. What is its exact definition as distinct from banking loans or credit card loans?

[/ QUOTE ]

The difference is when you default on your bank loan, a young telemarketer type calls you and tells you that your payment is late. When you default to a loanshark, he shows up with a bat at your house, to assault you in front of your wife and kids. Maybe two guys will use a pair of plyers on your thumb, etc. Get it?

[/ QUOTE ]

you have watched too many movies. Yes this can happen, but thats the extreme example.

[/ QUOTE ]

I grew up in Brooklyn, where a lot worse can happen. I didn't want to get more graphic than I described. However, I have witnessed much worse and read about much more horrific forms of torture used by loansharks.

Remember, levels of violence have a tendency to escalate if left unchecked, especially with mob involvement.

Re: Borgata PR sports betting charges being brought
 

You're saying that the difference between usury and credit card lending is entirely in the way defaulting on the loan is handled? Because I thought it had to do with the rate of interest being charged.

So, in Ian's case, did he actually show up at someone's house with a baseball bat or at least threaten to? You seem to be implying that he did. And, if he didn't, how can he be convicted? What evidence do they need to convict an accused loanshark?

Also, if he didn't, WHY are you implying that he did? Do you want him to get convicted? If so, why? Do you know him? Did he harm you in some way? Your point of view confuses me.


[ QUOTE ]




The difference is when you default on your bank loan, a young telemarketer type calls you and tells you that your payment is late. When you default to a loanshark, he shows up with a bat at your house, to assault you in front of your wife and kids. Maybe two guys will use a pair of plyers on your thumb, etc. Get it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Borgata PR sports betting charges being brought
 

[ QUOTE ]
You're saying that the difference between usury and credit card lending is entirely in the way defaulting on the loan is handled? Because I thought it had to do with the rate of interest being charged.

So, in Ian's case, did he actually show up at someone's house with a baseball bat or at least threaten to? You seem to be implying that he did. And, if he didn't, how can he be convicted? What evidence do they need to convict an accused loanshark?

Also, if he didn't, WHY are you implying that he did? Do you want him to get convicted? If so, why? Do you know him? Did he harm you in some way? Your point of view confuses me.


[ QUOTE ]


I am not saying he did anything. All of this was assumed public knowledge previously discussed on other threads on 2+2. The court will eventually decide.


The difference is when you default on your bank loan, a young telemarketer type calls you and tells you that your payment is late. When you default to a loanshark, he shows up with a bat at your house, to assault you in front of your wife and kids. Maybe two guys will use a pair of plyers on your thumb, etc. Get it?

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course the rate of interest would be excessive. In the articles written about this case, they even mention the rate if I recall correctly.That is the second big difference, with the first big difference remaining the extortionate means used to collect.

I am sure law enforcement has direct evidence such as written records, emails, phone calls, corroborated by eyewitness testimony, especially if the authorities are pressing charges.


I am not saying he did anything. All of this was assumed public knowledge previously discussed on other threads on 2+2. The court will eventually decide.

What I am saying is, if it was a loan shark ring, the tactics employed by most to enforce collection is a brutal, vicious, form of torture. Especially those who are affiliated with the mob. Just wait and see if this case goes to court, it will make for some eye opening, paper selling reading.

If he did these things, I want him to be convicted and imprisoned, so that the punishment fits the crime.

Re: Borgata PR sports betting charges being brought
 

[ QUOTE ]


[/ QUOTE ] Well I disagree. Bookmaking is illegal but not wrong, in my opinion. Loansharking (usury) I'm not clear on. What is its exact definition as distinct from banking loans or credit card loans?

[/ QUOTE ]

The difference is when you default on your bank loan, a young telemarketer type calls you and tells you that your payment is late. When you default to a loanshark, he shows up with a bat at your house, to assault you in front of your wife and kids. Maybe two guys will use a pair of plyers on your thumb, etc. Get it?

[/ QUOTE ]

you have watched too many movies. Yes this can happen, but thats the extreme example.

[/ QUOTE ]

I grew up in Brooklyn, where a lot worse can happen. I didn't want to get more graphic than I described. However, I have witnessed much worse and read about much more horrific forms of torture used by loansharks.

Remember, levels of violence have a tendency to escalate if left unchecked, especially with mob involvement.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd hate to have you on a jury, you assume way too much.

I grew up in the adjacent town to where John Gotti Jr lives (Babylon), my childhood friends were the suns and daughters of associates and solders. I was surrounded by this since I was a kid, most of what you assume isn't true - its all about the fear that it could occur. A loanshark isn't dumb, he knows that if he breaks someones thumbs to collect a debt then the heat will be on him - which destroys his business. They are business men, they worry about things that normal businesses worry about like marketing, public perception, etc etc etc. Its bad business to create an upset customer, the customer's actions can put the loanshark out of business for good. Fear is a loansharks #1 collection tool, violence is very very very rarely used.

Re: Borgata PR sports betting charges being brought
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'd hate to have you on a jury, you assume way too much.

I grew up in the adjacent town to where John Gotti Jr lives (Babylon), my childhood friends were the suns and daughters of associates and solders. I was surrounded by this since I was a kid, most of what you assume isn't true - its all about the fear that it could occur. A loanshark isn't dumb, he knows that if he breaks someones thumbs to collect a debt then the heat will be on him - which destroys his business. They are business men, they worry about things that normal businesses worry about like marketing, public perception, etc etc etc. Its bad business to create an upset customer, the customer's actions can put the loanshark out of business for good. Fear is a loansharks #1 collection tool, violence is very very very rarely used.

[/ QUOTE ]

Read the biography of Stuey Ungar by Peter Alson and Nolan Dalla. Ungar's father was a bookie, and according to the book never used violent collection means. The best way to get a debt paid was to threaten to cut off the action of the person who owed it - to a degenerate, this is worse than violence.

Again, loan sharking is wrong, but some posters in this thread have seen too many Marlon Brando flicks.

Re: Borgata PR sports betting charges being brought
 

People that think loansharks are cuddly little teddybears trying to make an honest wage better get away from home a little more often. I've personally witnessed one beating and the aftermath of another.
BTW, one of the clowns in the Borgata bust lost 50K at a blackjack table and grabbed the dealer by the shirt and threatened his family. Whoever sticks up for these lowlifes must not have very high values.

The indictment charges that from Jan. 1, 1994 through Nov. 22, 2002, the defendants used extortion, threats of physical violence and actual violence to enforce the collection of usurious loan payments. The investigation documented that numerous individuals or ‘clients’ of the loansharking operation were required to make dozens of loan payments totaling thousands of dollars above and beyond the initial loan. The indictment charges that payments in excess of 50 percent interest were demanded from the victims.
http://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcj/relea...licomo1220.htm

The defendants GIGLIO, FISHER, SPITALE, DACUNTO, GARCIA, PALMIERI, LAFORTE, and STOCCO are charged with a loansharking conspiracy, marked by violence and threats. GARCIA, for example, bragged to GIGLIO about threatening a debtor: “I went there . . . I smacked him right in front of all his f___n’ friends, 40 guys in the club . . . I smacked him and I dragged him out by the hair and put the thing to his face . . .”
http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/nye/pr/2006/2006Dec21.html

In a conversation in early 1984 between Cafaro and one "Pete," Cafaro states that he told Frankie Salerno to "get a hold of this kid [that owes him money] and bring him to me. He wants to be a wise guy. He told the guy he wants to bet from a thousand to $2500 and he thinks he ain't going to pay? I'll knock his f-----g brains in." Later on, Pete tells Cafaro: "I put up with him Fish. I came and I gave him a beating." Cafaro replies: "Good he deserves it." Pete says: "I gave him a beating. He was all full of blood. His f-----g face was all marked. Every f-----g shot I gave him, [**13] he had a lump like this, cuts here, cuts there; ah, I, he ain't got no face." Cafaro replies: "Yeah, you banged him up good, f--k him." T. 41.
http://www.thelaborers.net/court_cas...1986-04-02.htm

Re: Borgata PR sports betting charges being brought
 

whoa

Re: Borgata PR sports betting charges being brought
 

Most loansharks won't even lend you money unless someone vouches for you so they now have 2 sources to go after in case of a default.

Re: Borgata PR sports betting charges being brought
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd hate to have you on a jury, you assume way too much.

I grew up in the adjacent town to where John Gotti Jr lives (Babylon), my childhood friends were the suns and daughters of associates and solders. I was surrounded by this since I was a kid, most of what you assume isn't true - its all about the fear that it could occur. A loanshark isn't dumb, he knows that if he breaks someones thumbs to collect a debt then the heat will be on him - which destroys his business. They are business men, they worry about things that normal businesses worry about like marketing, public perception, etc etc etc. Its bad business to create an upset customer, the customer's actions can put the loanshark out of business for good. Fear is a loansharks #1 collection tool, violence is very very very rarely used.

[/ QUOTE ]

Read the biography of Stuey Ungar by Peter Alson and Nolan Dalla. Ungar's father was a bookie, and according to the book never used violent collection means. The best way to get a debt paid was to threaten to cut off the action of the person who owed it - to a degenerate, this is worse than violence.

[/ QUOTE ]

oddly I used to live across the street from the Sly Foxx in NY, Unger's father's bar. 9th street and 2nd avenue. Small world eh? that place was a dive.

Re: Borgata PR sports betting charges being brought
 

pocketpared : your applying another loansharking case on the situations in this case, don't you think thats a bit ridiculous? Different people, different situations, different biz practices. There are extremes everywhere in life, there are both passive and violent loansharks in this world but in general the violent types are found on the TV and in the movies. I admit anything is possible, but until there is a shred of evidence that there was physical violence used or threatened by the accused its best that assumptions are not made on this forum. We have already had one news reporter snooping around, I'd hate to have 2+2 become a source of innuendo that keeps the defendants from having a fair trial.

Now if someone wants to tell a story about how they were roughed up by the defendants as they were collecting a debt then thats fair game, until then no more assumptions. okthanksbye.

Re: Borgata PR sports betting charges being brought
 

Loansharks are loansharks. They don't change by location. You think Philadelphia organized criminals are nicer than organized criminals elsewhere in the country? I haven't even mentioned the beatings to slow payers administered by bookies I'm aware of.

Re: Borgata PR sports betting charges being brought
 

This post is not about the Borgata story. It is a reply to an earlier post in this thread.

[ QUOTE ]
I guarantee you my conception of right and wrong is a hell of a lot different than yours.

What "victims" did this "ring" have? Adults gambled, lost, and borrowed money to cover those losses. No one put a gun to their heads and told them they had to take a high interest loan. People are responsible for their own actions, period. If a guy borrows money from a loanshark and can't pay it back, whatever consequences might occur are his own fault. If you have so much concern for these "victims", what about the victims of the credit card companies? What about all the people with ARMs that getting their houses forclosed upon?

If you don't want to be involved in any of the shadier areas of life, then by all means don't get involved in them. Just remember, you're not involved, so whatever happens there is none of your business.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, to quote you, "I just wanted to let you know how much I hate this attitude."

The original, and still true among many, concept of Libertarians was that the state has no interest in the value of human life. If someone was murdered, then the family of the deceased or those immediately suffering a loss from his death would need to bring civil action against the guilty party to recover damages. Thus one could literally, if he could afford it, get away with murder.

The idea was that it doesn't matter to the state, it only matters to those who could prove a loss due to the murder, battery, rape, robbery, theft, destruction of property or whatever.

I believe we all suffer a direct degradation to our lives when people become widely subject to the assaults so often portrayed in stories of crime in America. Don't get me wrong. I'm not a bleeding heart liberal, and I'm no rabid right-winger. I'm a conservative. I highly value my constitutional right to bear arms to defend myself.

You said "If a guy borrows money from a loanshark and can't pay it back, whatever consequences might occur are his own fault." and "If you don't want to be involved in any of the shadier areas of life, then by all means don't get involved in them. Just remember, you're not involved, so whatever happens there is none of your business."

Your ideas would allow our cities, states and nation to become filled with those, whom we now consider criminals, to freely go about doing whatever physical and mental violence they wish to their customers, because it "is none of" our "business." I consider us to be overrun now with violent criminals. Imagine what it would be like if we decided, societally, not to make it our business.

What do you think would happen to the economy on which we all now depend if no one felt safe enough to conduct commerce? Isn't that "our business?"

The more of and the more freely that violent criminals go about their business, the less safe we all are. You believe that as long as we're not directly involved, then it's not our business. I believe you're wrong. These are not victimless crimes nor are they crimes that only affect those directly involved? They affect us all.

You believe we should not involve ourselves in "whatever consequences might occur."

I believe that if those who engage in "whatever consequences" they want to in the pursuit of their business seriously feared being caught and severly punished for any attacks they made on others, then they would re-figure their equations of profit and loss and decide to conduct their business differently.

Re: Borgata PR sports betting charges being brought
 

[ QUOTE ]
Loansharks are loansharks. They don't change by location. You think Philadelphia organized criminals are nicer than organized criminals elsewhere in the country? I haven't even mentioned the beatings to slow payers administered by bookies I'm aware of.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll say it again because you didn't get the message - If someone wants to tell a story about how they were roughed up by the defendants as they were collecting a debt then thats fair game, until then no more assumptions. okthanksbye.

Re: Borgata PR sports betting charges being brought
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Any bookmaking or loan-sharking that went on was wrong.


[/ QUOTE ]
Agree.

[/ QUOTE ]


Well I disagree. Bookmaking is illegal but not wrong, in my opinion. Loansharking (usury) I'm not clear on. What is its exact definition as distinct from banking loans or credit card loans?

[/ QUOTE ]

The difference is when you default on your bank loan, a young telemarketer type calls you and tells you that your payment is late. When you default to a loanshark, he shows up with a bat at your house, to assault you in front of your wife and kids. Maybe two guys will use a pair of plyers on your thumb, etc. Get it?

[/ QUOTE ]

you have watched too many movies. Yes this can happen, but thats the extreme example.

[/ QUOTE ]

I cannot believe how this thread has gotten derailed.

FYI the term usuary means..

Usury (/'juʒ(ə)ɹi/, from the Medieval Latin usuria, "interest" or "excessive interest", from Latin usura "interest") was defined originally as charging a fee for the use of money. This usually meant interest on loans, although charging a fee for changing money (as at a bureau de change) is included in the original meaning. After moderate-interest loans were made more easily available usury became an accepted part of the business world in the early modern age. Today, the word has come to refer to the charging of unreasonable or relatively high rates of interest

Re: Borgata PR sports betting charges being brought
 

[ QUOTE ]
I cannot believe how this thread has gotten derailed.



[/ QUOTE ]

The thread has gotten derailed due to people making assumptions, thereby making an ass out of U and Umption.

[ QUOTE ]

FYI the term usuary means..
Usury (/'juʒ(ə)ɹi/, from the Medieval Latin usuria, "interest" or "excessive interest", from Latin usura "interest") was defined originally as charging a fee for the use of money. This usually meant interest on loans, although charging a fee for changing money (as at a bureau de change) is included in the original meaning. After moderate-interest loans were made more easily available usury became an accepted part of the business world in the early modern age. Today, the word has come to refer to the charging of unreasonable or relatively high rates of interest

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct. From Webster.com:
[ QUOTE ]


Date: 14th century

1 archaic : interest
2: the lending of money with an interest charge for its use; especially : the lending of money at exorbitant interest rates
3: an unconscionable or exorbitant rate or amount of interest; specifically : interest in excess of a legal rate charged to a borrower for the use of money


[/ QUOTE ]

Some of the 23 charged in the Borgata case are charged with consipracy to commit criminal usury, defined by the state of New Jersey as interest in excess of 30%.

Re: Borgata PR sports betting charges being brought
 

[ QUOTE ]
oddly I used to live across the street from the Sly Foxx in NY, Unger's father's bar. 9th street and 2nd avenue. Small world eh? that place was a dive.

[/ QUOTE ]

TT.... Rosey Grier has nothing on you.

Re: Borgata PR sports betting charges being brought
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
oddly I used to live across the street from the Sly Foxx in NY, Unger's father's bar. 9th street and 2nd avenue. Small world eh? that place was a dive.

[/ QUOTE ]

TT.... Rosey Grier has nothing on you.

[/ QUOTE ]

well for starters he was Pam Grier's cousin... I can only wish I was related to the original foxy momma.

Re: Borgata PR sports betting charges being brought
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
oddly I used to live across the street from the Sly Foxx in NY, Unger's father's bar. 9th street and 2nd avenue. Small world eh? that place was a dive.

[/ QUOTE ]

TT.... Rosey Grier has nothing on you.

[/ QUOTE ]

well for starters he was Pam Grier's cousin... I can only wish I was related to the original foxy momma.

[/ QUOTE ]

TT,

As someone with quite a bit of hillbilly in my background, I find your last comment somewhat disturbing. Hopefully I'm just projecting.

Re: Borgata PR sports betting charges being brought
 

I see what you're getting at about the world around us becoming a worse place if loansharking and the like go completely unchecked, but I think, to a degree, that's already the case in many places. There are different norms of conduct in different places. Atlantic City is a pretty bad place. Wander into the wrong neighborhood late at night, you might get your throat cut over your watch and wallet. The same thing goes for L.A., Vegas, Detroit, and many other cities. Crime tends to graviate toward certain areas, both geographic and otherwise. Poverty-stricken cities and gambling are two areas that are very attractive of crime. When I say that people can avoid the effects of this type of crime by avoiding getting involved, I don't mean just not getting involved with loansharks, I mean steering clear of shady cities and gambling. No matter what the loansharks do, no matter how prevalent crime becomes in A.C., or Vegas, or L.A., it will barely have any impact on a guy who lives his life on the straight and narrow in a nice quiet suburb in Idaho.

I am definately a libertarian, and people on the wrong side of the law aren't the "criminals" I'm most concerned about. A bureaucrat wearing a cheap suit armed with a bunch of paperwork is far more likely to have a negative impact on my life than a meathead wearing a leather jacket and a pinky ring armed with a baseball bat.

The world is already a very f'd up place. Always has been, probably always will be. That's just human nature, pure and simple. I'm not going to worry more about certain people, just because the law places them in a certain category. I'm sure cops kick down a hell of a lot more doors than home invaders. And with the home invaders, I at least have a decent chance of winning in a shootout.

Re: Borgata PR sports betting charges being brought
 

you are wrong and muddling the facts and your perceptions and experences. do you know the people involved?

i assume you don't, there are some serious to semi-serious oc people linked with this case. the person in question is not one of them he is not dangerous and my impression has always been he laoned to players he knew who acautlly wanted the money, and didn't really sweat the interest too much. regaurdless what you are talking about does happen, people also get hit by cars, and fall off buildings, but that is not relevant to this specific situtaion. stop making inncorrect and sweeping judgements.

fianlly you think having your credit and finicial situtaion completely destroyed by a cc company is much better than getting smacked around? [censored] it they can have my finger i want to keep my credit.
dave

Re: Borgata PR sports betting charges being brought
 

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oddly I used to live across the street from the Sly Foxx in NY, Unger's father's bar. 9th street and 2nd avenue. Small world eh? that place was a dive.

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TT.... Rosey Grier has nothing on you.

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well for starters he was Pam Grier's cousin... I can only wish I was related to the original foxy momma.

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TT,

As someone with quite a bit of hillbilly in my background, I find your last comment somewhat disturbing. Hopefully I'm just projecting.

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I wouldn't want to be related to her, but I wouldn't mind being related to her kids. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

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Re: Borgata PR sports betting charges being brought
 

[ QUOTE ]
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oddly I used to live across the street from the Sly Foxx in NY, Unger's father's bar. 9th street and 2nd avenue. Small world eh? that place was a dive.

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TT.... Rosey Grier has nothing on you.

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well for starters he was Pam Grier's cousin... I can only wish I was related to the original foxy momma.

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TT,

As someone with quite a bit of hillbilly in my background, I find your last comment somewhat disturbing. Hopefully I'm just projecting.

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thats a real good way to get some time off in this forum. Even back-door bigotry isn't tolerated in the B&M forum, we want people to behave and interact with each other just like they would in a real cardroom. We will let it slide this time because its really close to the edge. I suggest you keep that hillbilly to yourself while playing poker and visiting 2+2.

Re: Borgata PR sports betting charges being brought
 

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People that think loansharks are cuddly little teddybears trying to make an honest wage better get away from home a little more often. I've personally witnessed one beating and the aftermath of another.
BTW, one of the clowns in the Borgata bust lost 50K at a blackjack table and grabbed the dealer by the shirt and threatened his family. Whoever sticks up for these lowlifes must not have very high values.

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This says it all, the Borgata will be much better off without them.

Re: Borgata PR sports betting charges being brought
 

No, you didn't get the message. I said one of the clowns arrested threatened a dealers life because he lost 50K at their blackjack table. I'm sure if you owed him shy money and were slow to pay though, he would just say, "Take your time. No problem."

Re: Borgata PR sports betting charges being brought
 

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/15/nyregion/15bust.html

"In all, 5 people were arrested on Wednesday and 18 were issued summonses, on charges of promoting gambling, money laundering and criminal usury. Investigators said they found more than $40,000 in Borgata chips and cash in Mr. Micali’s safe deposit box at the casino, and that they seized gambling records, a laptop computer and a loaded .357-caliber semiautomatic handgun at his home."

Re: Borgata PR sports betting charges being brought
 

That looks more like an inbreeding kind of joke than anything racist. You did say you wouldn't mind being related to her.

Re: Borgata PR sports betting charges being brought
 

[ QUOTE ]
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/15/nyregion/15bust.html

"In all, 5 people were arrested on Wednesday and 18 were issued summonses, on charges of promoting gambling, money laundering and criminal usury. Investigators said they found more than $40,000 in Borgata chips and cash in Mr. Micali’s safe deposit box at the casino, and that they seized gambling records, a laptop computer and a loaded .357-caliber semiautomatic handgun at his home."

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Either he owns a Desert Eagle (or two less common .357 semi-auto handguns) or this is yet another piece of misinformation.

Re: Borgata PR sports betting charges being brought
 

[ QUOTE ]
No, you didn't get the message. I said one of the clowns arrested threatened a dealers life because he lost 50K at their blackjack table. I'm sure if you owed him shy money and were slow to pay though, he would just say, "Take your time. No problem."

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"BTW, one of the clowns in the Borgata bust lost 50K at a blackjack table and grabbed the dealer by the shirt and threatened his family."

this is an unrelated incident and is surprisingly common that it happens a few time a week in the biggest casinos. In fact it happens hourly at Commerce - its considered a part of the culture there - right or wrong its standard behavior. It doesn't make it right of course, but security obviously made a decision that there was no risk. The dealer was never hurt and neither was his family. Its just an irate player who lost 50k blowing off steam in the wrong way. This is in no way evidence that he was a violent person, it probably wouldn't even be admitted into court because he wasn't banned from the casino; it would backfire in the prosecution's face if it was brought up in the trial as evidence.