Re: assani
 

i think assani sometimes tries to be a good sports poster but he does derail / troll as well and anybody who thinks he doesn't know exactly what he's doing is dim.

losing yeti over this sucks huge balls and is dumb. bad time to pick a spot and make an example out of somebody.

Re: assani
 

yeah what makes this especially dumb as pj says is that multiple mods were telling him it was fine, he was clearly aware of the nuance and was trying to stay within the rules, and then he gets tossed anyway, whereas when jim kuhn just goes and bans a well-liked poster for a completely terrible, illegitimate reason (OUT OF FORUM as well) it gets absolutely no response from admins even though most mods think it was laughably stupid. way to keep in touch with your volunteers guys.

Re: assani
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think demodding Yeti is also a bit of an overreaction. While I disagreed with Yeti's ban (as stated in my first response in this thread), a) it was only for 3 hours; and b) it was suggested by Dynasty.

Seems like Ryan should just tell Yeti: "Hey bud, stop banning out of forums, reinstate Assani, and if it happens again you'll get demodded."

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: assani
 

Thing is I didn't overreact. The response I started to type up was more joking and exactly, "Hey, don't do this again." And in response to his point about banning for posts made earlier in OOT, this was exactly what I was going to say:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...Cola/quinn.jpg
No


Then I stopped and thought about it. From my viewpoint he knew he wasn't supposed to do that and did anyway. Other mods encouraging it I don't understand. The rules are there for everyone. They were put in place quite a while ago, and I'm not making an example out of anyone. I like Yeti. This sucks. But the rule has to be enforced if it's there, and I couldn't think of a reason this was ok.

It's not surprising to me that some don't like this, but I'm not going to understand the following as reasoning for bans if some of the same thinking isn't applied here. I hear all the time that if a user can't read the stickies that's their problem and we should have no sympathy for them etc, etc. The mod sticky is very short.

Re: assani
 

The Onslaught Threads are a perfect example of sophisticated trolling in OOT.

Re: assani
 

he obviously understands the sticky which is why he took the time to ask about it and wasn't even going to do this until other people told him to. this is totally different from someone not taking any time to learn the rules and just being a retard.

if you're going to demod him, better demod dynasty, ajmargarine, citanul, me, and daryn as well, because we all agreed with him.

Re: assani
 

I'm never going to demod anyone for their opinions.

Re: assani
 

[ QUOTE ]
I like Yeti. This sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]
Is this to set an example though? As someone pointed out, didn't Jim Kuhn essentially do the same thing under yet more questionable circumstances recently?

Yeti seems like a pretty level-headed dude, I don't recall him ever getting worked up about anything until this, in any forum. It's not like he's gonna take his ball and go home or anything, but if he still wants to mod won't you reconsider? The only other guess I have here is that he had some previous mod naughtiness and was on thin ice or something but that doesn't seem to check out.

Re: assani
 

this wouldn't be bad if you were at all consistent about enforcing, or even acknowledging when other mods clearly step out of line, but you don't, so it's [censored] stupid.

Re: assani
 

I've been so busy with vB that I can't really speak to anything that happened with Jim Kuhn. I can't address a situation I don't know about. Stretched a little thin here.

No, it's not me setting an example. There have been many better spots to do that if that's how I really wanted to treat people as an admin.

Re: assani
 

well should you really be so quick on the trigger with a long-time, highly respected mod, when you can't even pay enough attention to the relatively low-traffic mod forum to know that another mod did something very similar WITHOUT checking in with the forum first and getting encouragement from several mods?

Re: assani
 

[ QUOTE ]
even acknowledging when other mods clearly step out of line

[/ QUOTE ]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...umber=12516650


[ QUOTE ]
well should you really be so quick on the trigger

[/ QUOTE ]

I wasn't.

Re: assani
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
even acknowledging when other mods clearly step out of line

[/ QUOTE ]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...umber=12516650

[/ QUOTE ]

this isn't about stepping out of line, this is you not liking the lines that others have set.

Re: assani
 

It's pretty clear to me that it is?

Re: assani
 

in that thread you are complaining about the way mods are using the discretion that has been given to them by 2p2. in this thread and the jim kuhn thread, we are talking about breaking (or not breaking) one of the few rules that have actually been firmly established for mods. they are two different things.

things like subjective standards for banning or practices around inappropriate locations are things that we discuss here often, and having a consistent policy depends on mods paying attention. yeti follows these discussions and pays attention to what other mods think. jim kuhn apparently doesn't follow them closely at all because he was unaware of a very common precedent concerning locations, and also unaware of what words are censored on 2p2. and you apparently follow them even less because you didn't even know the discussion took place.

and somehow yeti is removed as a mod while jim kuhn is never even reprimanded.

(i think jim is a pretty good mod btw and have no desire to see him get removed, it just illustrates how out of touch this decision is on your part).

Re: assani
 

[ QUOTE ]
Thing is I didn't overreact.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm glad your ban thread was linked Ryan, saves me searching for it. I agree with you when you talk a bit about the banhappiness that some of us mods have. And I agree that we need to work on that as mods. But, don't you see the parallel:

Regular Poster:

1. Makes bad decision
2. Breaks rule
3. No history of being out of line.
4. Gets banned.

Mod:

1. Makes bad decision
2. Breaks rule
3. No history of being out of line.
4. Gets permabanned from being a mod, demodded.

It seems the exact thing that you would like us to get better at as mods is the thing that you are doing here as an admin.

Re: assani
 

aj,

exactly.

Re: assani
 

bottom line is people need to stop abusing their ability to ban users. this whole "i'm annoyed by this poster, therefore he's trolling and needs a timeout" is ludicrous and is the definition of abuse of mod "powers".

i don't have anything against yeti fwiw, but i hate that assani got banned at all just for posting some numbers at the end of his posts.

Re: assani
 

it has been pretty clearly explained how 'i am annoyed by this guy therefore ban' is not what happened here at all. if you don't think assani is trolling by doing that, fine, valid opinion, but there are plenty of us here who think that type of trolling is permitted far too much on this site, and mods should use their discretion more than they already do to stop it.

Re: assani
 

Well, not that it entirely applies here, but I do believe mods should be held to a higher standard when it comes to following specific rules like that. I also didn't take away Yeti's ability to post.

I say that it doesn't quite apply because the wording in Mat's sticky is pretty plain about losing mods.

Re: assani
 

Let's stage a mod walkout! Then they'll be forced to replace us with scabs like Blutarski and MicroBob, and will come back begging after three hours or so. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Re: assani
 

[ QUOTE ]
I trust you guys to know when an exception is appropriate. It's rule 2 which needs to be followed always.

[/ QUOTE ]

(mat sklansky, in the mod rules sticky, on out-of-forum banning.)

[ QUOTE ]
The only exception is when a spammy poster has gone crazy making multiple spam posts in multiple forums.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think what assani did is a form of this as well.


[ QUOTE ]

This place is now officially big. Lots of stuff is happening and mistakes will be made. Mistakes will also be corrected.

[/ QUOTE ]

sounds like a pretty hard-line decision, no leeway at all here.

i for one have screwed up much worse than yeti did, probably more than once, it came to the attention of the admins and i am still here.

Re: assani
 

[ QUOTE ]
bottom line is people need to stop abusing their ability to ban users. this whole "i'm annoyed by this poster, therefore he's trolling and needs a timeout" is ludicrous and is the definition of abuse of mod "powers".


[/ QUOTE ]

Agree completely.


Also, when some mods discuss some poster in here and how the poster is terrible and should be banned, it reminds me of high school girls bitching about some other girl who's not in their clique. Seriously, it's beyond a joke. If someone's breaking the rules - even abritrary dumb ones - then ban or suspend them, don't try and get a little gang agreeing with you - it's silly. (Nothing wrong with asking 'Poster X did Y: Is this a ban/suspension?' - that's completely different to whining on about a poster you don't like).

It's that sort of silly cliquey crap that makes me think this forum would be better as publicly viewable, frankly (though obv not the threads moved here because their acceptability needs discussing).


FWIW, I also think Yeti did a good job as a mod, and would like to see him come back to the green sometime.

Re: assani
 

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
The only exception is when a spammy poster has gone crazy making multiple spam posts in multiple forums.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think what assani did is a form of this as well.


[/ QUOTE ]

You're now trying to call his posting spam? Cmon how much of a hard-on for banning this guy do you all have?

Re: assani
 

[ QUOTE ]

i think what assani did is a form of this as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just want to make this clear as an admin. What assani did does not come close to falling within that exception.

Re: assani
 

[ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]
The only exception is when a spammy poster has gone crazy making multiple spam posts in multiple forums.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think what assani did is a form of this as well.



[/ QUOTE ]

WHAT?


lol, NT, not even close.

Re: assani
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
The only exception is when a spammy poster has gone crazy making multiple spam posts in multiple forums.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think what assani did is a form of this as well.


[/ QUOTE ]

You're now trying to call his posting spam? Cmon how much of a hard-on for banning this guy do you all have?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, these are two different things. NT!, using your hate for Assani to make your case for Yeti - poorly, no less - isn't a good idea.

Re: assani
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
The only exception is when a spammy poster has gone crazy making multiple spam posts in multiple forums.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think what assani did is a form of this as well.


[/ QUOTE ]

You're now trying to call his posting spam? Cmon how much of a hard-on for banning this guy do you all have?

[/ QUOTE ]

i think pointlessly posting [censored] for your own amusement and derailing threads with it is pretty spammy, yeah. there's a reason we have BBV.

i wouldn't ban somebody just for that, but i would definitely tell him not to do it in OOT anymore if i had seen it, and if a bunch of mods who usually think my bans are a bad idea told me to ban him, i might even do it.

Re: assani
 

anyway whether this is spam or not isn't the main point. the main point is, ryan is acting like he had no choice but to demod yeti because it was so clear cut that he broke the rules, when in fact mat's post SAYS he expects there to be mistakes made, and tells mods to use their discretion. yeti used not only his discretion but that of several other mods.

Re: assani
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

So you're basically going to ignore my question where I ask for you to provide some sort of example of him trolling in OOT?

[/ QUOTE ]

no, i'll not ignore your question. unlike assani who will ignore questions about the countdown, which is basically a sophisticated troll as it effectively derails threads, but anyone who can read would have known i said this above.

[/ QUOTE ]

But dude, the only reason I brought it up was because prior to making my posts in this thread I went and searched through his posts in OOT since he started the countdown and these derailments you speak of didn't happen. At all. I'm not arguing that he's not a troll in other forums, hasn't trolled OOT in the past, etc, etc, just that the justification for this banning didn't happen.

Re: assani
 

daryn didn't say he derailed an OOT thread with it, he said it derails threads in general.

/nitpick

Re: assani
 

I think it's safe to say Mat and I both prefer flexibility over rigid rules. It just so happens in this case there is one with a specific punishment attached, and I really do feel like I didn't have a choice. But I can't shake that it being correct doesn't make it seem right, and other arguments against it are weak by comparison. Yeti probably wouldn't do it again. He's a reasonable guy, and NT is also right in that others have probably been given extra chances for doing the same thing for whatever reasons. That's an inconsistency that benefits no one.

This isn't necessary. What's needed is a sticky edit. I'm going to do that now and talk to Yeti.

Re: assani
 

A few points. I think the post with T-God had been moved to Internet Gambling and back to BBV. I could be mistaken as I had multiple windows up. However, T-God's location WAS ALSO IN THE ZOO and you can see via this LINK. Also, aren't locations and user names across all forums? i.e. not per forum? Also, by the lack of admin response I am deducing they agreed that the location was inappropriate for www.twoplustwo.com. So...... it was not a 'terrible illegitimate reason'.

FYI for Ryan - the location was something like 'sucka y sucka dick y'all'. He had already been banned multiple times for profanity and you had stated a couple of bans ago he was on his last chance. I banned him for 24 hours and changed his location to something like 2+2.

FWIW I would like to see Yeti reinstated with just a warning. I think he has learned his lesson. I think he rubbed Ryan the wrong way with his acknowledgment that he was banning out of forum. That does not mean that I agree with the assani ban. If the main offense was having a counter in his signature I think the ban should be overturned. JMHO

Thank you,

Jim Kuhn
Catfish4u
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Re: assani
 

Yeah, Yeti is great and it would be nice for him to be re-modded if that's what he wants. The ban and the reasons behind were ridiculous but that doesn't really change him being a good mod and an asset to 2p2.

Re: assani
 

[ QUOTE ]
Is this to set an example though? As someone pointed out, didn't Jim Kuhn essentially do the same thing under yet more questionable circumstances recently?

[/ QUOTE ]

No. Please see above response to NT's post. My suspension was an inappropriate location where the poster had posted in my forum and the location was visible in my forum. The assani suspension was a mod preference against a count in the user signature. The mod also acknowledged he knew it was out of forum. I think the situations are more different then similar.

Thank you,

Jim Kuhn
Catfish4u
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Re: assani
 

Jim, sitewide features of a user's profile like avatars and locations are not restricted by which forums a user posts in and can be handled by any mod. I wish there were a requirement that mods not do this unless the user posts in their forum, but there isn't.

Re: assani
 

[ QUOTE ]
Jim, sitewide features of a user's profile like avatars and locations are not restricted by which forums a user posts in and can be handled by any mod. I wish there were a requirement that mods not do this unless the user posts in their forum, but there isn't.

[/ QUOTE ]

- T God did not have anything in his avatar / loc that is censored by 2p2. Furthermore, if Jim felt it was inappropriate and wanted him to change it, the procedure that mods usually use in that scenario is to simply go in and change it, or ask the user to change it. There is no precedent for a ban there. Jim did not know this, nor did he know that the word 'dick' is permitted on 2p2, nor did he know how the location / avatar fields work. I still haven't seen him flat out admit that he made any kind of mistake, even though he clearly doesn't follow the discussions we have here about this kind of thing and, up until very recently, didn't even know some very basic things about how the site work, such as the [censored] filter or the location field.

Re: assani
 

[ QUOTE ]
What's needed is a sticky edit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good decision. I couldn't agree more.

Re: assani
 

NT,

Please go back and very slowly read the other thread where this was all discussed. Basically just about every point you are bringing up was discussed and you are very misinformed. You are starting to act like a troll regarding the location situation. If you think that particular location is appropriate please take it up with the admins. That is an admin type decision if it is to be overturned.

About the only thing you have correct is I am not sure exactly what words are in the profanity filter. Do you know all of them? Also, just because the profanity filter does not block something does not make it correct. We must look at the context and decide on a case by case basis. FWIW I am not going to be online much longer tonight. Please don't take it that I am ignoring anyone nor don't care about the mod discussions.

Thank you,

Jim Kuhn
Catfish4u
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Re: assani
 

[ QUOTE ]

Please go back and very slowly read the other thread where this was all discussed. Basically just about every point you are bringing up was discussed and you are very misinformed. You are starting to act like a troll regarding the location situation. If you think that particular location is appropriate please take it up with the admins. That is an admin type decision if it is to be overturned.

[/ QUOTE ]

no, what happened is you made a blanket denial of any wrongdoing and ignored the fact that you don't understand basic information about how the site software works, such as which words are censored, whether it's possible to circumvent the profanity filter in the location field, or what the usual punishment / action regarding inappropriate locations are. you did whatever you thought was right to a long-time poster without checking with other mods when you were totally ignorant of precedent and procedure. then, when the majority of people pointed out that you were wrong, you refused to acknowledge same.