Re: AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT
 

New superuser account already??


http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/6291/suah6.jpg

Re: AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT
 

[ QUOTE ]
What happened to the supposed 2 high-ranking executives who were involved with this, one of whom was supposed to be kicked out for good, with the other one getting a <cough> timeout.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the burning question in my mind too. GG AP. Way to fuel the already inflamed community with this complete and utter [censored].

Re: AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
<font color="brown">This statement says nothing </font>

[/ QUOTE ]AP&amp; kanhawake comission seem far too close for comfort here. how can they audit/ investigate themsleves? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Quote for emphasis on the absolute retardation of this audit.

Re: AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT
 

Get to Know Your Absolute Executives: Grand Chief Edition

http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/photos/nortonjoe200_cp_756053.jpg http://www.teknowave.ca/images/JTN.gif

Bio:

Joseph Tokwiro Norton is a leader. Born in the Mohawk territory of Kahnawá:ke, Quebec, he attended school and played lacrosse. Qualified and union member of the Ironworkers of America, worked on heavy building projects in northeastern US. First elected to public office, Mohawk Council of Kahnawá:ke, 1978. Two years later, Mr. Norton won office as Grand Chief, post held until retirement in 2004.

For more then 20 years, Chief Norton has exhibited the highest standards of dedication, loyalty, and perseverance in leading his community. He has been involved in education for many years and cares greatly about the future of our youth. In July, 2004, Norton ends his office in good standing, total of 26 years of public service of which 24 were as Grand Chief. Norton left office with a surplus in the budget and 2% unemployment rate and top notch administration that is accountable and transparent with regular reporting mechanism to the community.

Joseph Norton continues to represent First Nations and their issues throughout the world. He serves on several Boards of Directors including TeKnoWave Inc. His exemplary leadership has resulted in the Mohawks' achievement of significant cultural and economic presence within the Aboriginal community, and commands respect in Canada as a whole. Through his strong leadership skills, he is truly setting the standards for the next generation.

Major achievements are: Kahnawá:ke Gaming Commission, Kahnawá:ke Economic Development Commission, and Mohawk Internet Technologies. Promoted indigenous culture with creation of the Kahnawá:ke Kanienkéha (Mohawk) Language Literacy Certificate Program. In conjunction with Willis College of Business and Technology established the Joseph Tokwiro Norton Scholarship, an annual award for Aboriginal youth to pursue a high technology career. He is recipient of Recipient 2002 of the National Aboriginal Achievement Award for community development.

Mr. Norton is presently a special consultant for The Federal Bridge Corporation Limited, a founder and CEO of Turtle Technologies and CEO of Mohawk Internet Technologies.

Source: http://www.teknowave.ca/jtn/gcnortan.htm

Re: AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
<font color="brown">This statement says nothing </font>

[/ QUOTE ]AP&amp; kanhawake comission seem far too close for comfort here. how can they audit/ investigate themsleves? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

i think this is how, it would look like this:

http://www.seguroholidays.com/data/i...PRESIDENTE.jpg

Re: AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT
 

"durrrrrrrrr well played racist remark sir" - adanthar

It was precisely chosen. Norton exposes them all to angry reaction. And, clearly, they shouldn't be above the law.

Re: AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT
 

In the Enron case that happened a few years ago, didn't they initially audit themselves that turned up to be a bogus audit?

Re: AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT
 

gg online poker

Re: AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT
 

Let's get real, Scott Tom isn't going anywhere. He's gonna pay off the right people and AP will perpetuate this mystery indefinitely as to whether they really fired him or anyone else. There's nothing left to do but just don't play there or at UB.

Re: AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT
 

hopefully this statement pisses off the leakers at absolute.

Re: AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT
 

Here's a suggestion, what about gathering all the info and creating a Wiki?

There you could present the timeline of events, the people involved, the accounts involved, the structure of the AP company, all the statements issued so far etc...


Following this has been fascinating.

Re: AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT
 

All,

See previous threads where I explained how AP would respond to this, which is pretty much exactly what they did: OMG, sorry guys, thanks for letting us know, won't happen again!!!!

And they'll keep repeating the same crap until it stops being a major news focus. And when adanthar, Nat, druff, and others have moved on, Absolute will be bringing in people from industry publications for lavish parties and trips that include tours of their new ultra-high security audited facilities, leading to glowing reviews of how Absolute has come out as much stronger and more reliable.

2+2ers will stay away and laugh at the idiots who believe that crap and play there, until word gets around of the soft games, at which time a few 2+2ers will play there and get scoffed at. But after a while, people will see them winning big, and follow them over there. NH, Absolute.

It's a war of attrition here, and Absolute is going to win.

"let you know what we know so far in order to set the record straight, and to assure you of AP’s commitment to player security."

Trust us, we are all about security!

"comments, opinions, and theories of what occurred – some of which are accurate, and some that are not."

Don't believe those wackos on the forums!

"Like you, I have not been happy that during the initial stage of our investigation, AP has not been more forthcoming in providing a timely or comprehensive explanation on this matter"

We're not admitting we lied and tried to cover things up, just maybe could have been a little more open I guess. Sorry!

"this remains an incredibly complex and sensitive issue, and I want to give you my strongest possible assurance that we will be as forthcoming as possible on how this breach occurred and what we are doing to remedy the situation."

Very complicated stuff here, so understand we can't tell you everything, of course!

"This disclosure of the hand logs prompted our customers to determine that a more serious security breach had occurred. We immediately launched an internal investigation and also requested a formal audit by Gaming Associates, an acknowledged world-wide expert in audits, interactive gaming tests, and information security."

We launched an investigation immediately, we did not say that this was impossible and try to sweep it under the rug, no, nope, no how, no way did we lie and try to cover this up, didn't happen, your memory is wrong!

"Based upon our preliminary findings, it appears that the integrity of our poker system was compromised by a high-ranking trusted consultant employed by AP whose position gave him extraordinary access to certain security systems."

No, nope, we didn't at all say that it was an employee doing testing to illustrate a flaw, no, nope, no how, now way did we lie and try to cover up a second time with yet another made up story, didn't happen, your memory is wrong!

"this consultant devised a sophisticated scheme to manipulate internal systems to access third-party computers and accounts to view hole cards of other customers during play without their knowledge."

This story, this sophisticated scheme by a consultant, THIS is the real story, and what we've been saying all along. Trust us on this, no way would we ever make up a fake story to cover up the fact that we were ripping you off, no, no way we would ever do something like this, we are your trusted and secure online poker friend!

"We consider this security breach to be a horrendous and inexcusable offense."

Sorry guys!

"it appears at this time that all account holders are innocent of collusion and were unaware of any wrong-doing by the consultant, who was immediately terminated."

OK, like I said, just that one bad consultant, all Absolute people are 100% truthful and innocent and would never lie or steal or cheat, you can trust Absolute. Bad consultant, bad consultant! You can't trust those damn consultants, AMIRITE?

"Please be assured that we have corrected the problem that allowed the system to be unfairly manipulated. We are working furiously to increase the safeguards within our systems. While we are satisfied that our systems are secured, we realize that our security systems must be continuously monitored and enhanced."

Everything's cool now, guys! But we're gonna make it even more secure. YAY SECURITY, YAY ABSOLUTE, COME ON GUYS, CAN WE GET AN AMEN? YAY SECURITY!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Without question, this incident has been unfortunate for all concerned, and we will emerge as a stronger company."

Sorry again guys, but this is ALL FOR THE BEST!!!

"our valued customers have played a vital role in uncovering this scheme through various online forums and have become an active part of the solution. With my full sincerity, I thank you"

Guys, seriously, it's all thanks to you guys that our security is becoming so awesome now. THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, you guys are awesome. Everyone at Absolute loves you guys, thanks, you rule! Sorry again, you guys rule! OK, now let's go play poker and forget about all this nonsense!

Re: AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT
 

[ QUOTE ]
hopefully this statement pisses off the leakers at absolute.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT
 

[ QUOTE ]
In the Enron case that happened a few years ago, didn't they initially audit themselves that turned up to be a bogus audit?

[/ QUOTE ] AP is [censored] imo. thats statement just shows how [censored] up it all is. kanawhake comission is just a name only toothless organisation. all the major sites have the kanawhake symbol on it as if it somehow means they are providing some kind of kosha safe service. like kite mark of quality. if i was stars and ftp i would be distancing myself from these (cowboys) pardon pun
[img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

Re: AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT
 

kawanahke is actually (*now*) legitimate and will remain that way from this point on.

Re: AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT
 

ad,

"kawanahke is actually (*now*) legitimate and will remain that way from this point on."

How on earth are you qualified to make a statement like that?

Did they REALLY send over that Serinda chick to bang you?

Re: AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT
 

[ QUOTE ]
In the Enron case that happened a few years ago, didn't they initially audit themselves that turned up to be a bogus audit?

[/ QUOTE ]

The auditor was Arthur Andersen. The "big four" accounting firms that have been mentioned in this thread used to be the "big five".

Re: AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT
 

el d,

it's surprising *how many* sources I have and how much completely irrelevant factoids I know about completely random Canadian Indians at this point.

Re: AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT
 

Might aswell drop a few mini-dramabombs imo Adanthar.

Re: AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT
 

[ QUOTE ]
ad,

"kawanahke is actually (*now*) legitimate and will remain that way from this point on."

How on earth are you qualified to make a statement like that?

Did they REALLY send over that Serinda chick to bang you?

[/ QUOTE ]i was just pointing out the massive conflict of interest/non action of the comission

Re: AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT
 

AP is full of [censored]. Who would've thought?

Re: AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT
 

Why don't they relase the name of the so called "high level consultant". Are they protecting the identity of this high level consultant ( if we wanna believe their story) who breached their system and caused them huge damages?

Cmon....If nothing else then this statement should confirm to any thinking person that Absolute is a crooked organization up until the highest level...

Re: AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In the Enron case that happened a few years ago, didn't they initially audit themselves that turned up to be a bogus audit?

[/ QUOTE ]

The auditor was Arthur Andersen. The "big four" accounting firms that have been mentioned in this thread used to be the "big five".

[/ QUOTE ]exactly. transparency is not a priority with such gigantic sums of money at stake. i dont think we will get satisfaction out of this

Re: AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT
 

At least I can stop making popcorn now.

Gonna watch football, play poker at any place but Absolute Poker, and watch any movies that don't star Graham Greene as my protest for the day.

Re: AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT
 

What a load of BS statement. Keep up the pressure guys.


THE PLAYERS
--------------------------
ABSOLUTE POKER
"Absolute Poker and the Absolute Poker website are solely owned and operated by Tokwiro Enterprises ENRG, Route 138, Kahnawake, Quebec J0L 1B0. Tokwiro Enterprises ENRG is owned by a Mohawk of Kahnawake and is operated from the sovereign nation of the Mohawks of Kahnawake, located near Montreal Quebec." Established in 2003, AbsolutePoker.com is headquartered in Costa Rica and licensed and regulated in Canada.

Absolute Poker purchased Ultimate Bet in Oct, 2006. $10 million in cash and about $140 million in 5 future annual payments.

A company profile from ZOOM INFO shows a corporate address as:
P.O. Box 025292
Miami, FL 33102-5292
USA

KAHNAWAKE GAMING COMMISSION KCG WEBSITE
P.O. Box 1799
Old Malone Highway
Kahnawake Mohawk Territory, QC J0L 1B0
CANADA

Established June 10, 1996 and presently comprised of three members appointed by the Mohawk Council of Kahnawake: David Montour (Chairperson), Melanie Mayo, and Kevin Kennedy. The Commission is empowered to regulate and control gaming and gaming related activities conducted within and from the Mohawk Territory of Kahnawake in accordance with the highest principles of honesty and integrity.

The KGC is currently investigating Absolute Poker. Joseph Tokwiro Norton is a leader.Mr. Norton is presently a special consultant for The Federal Bridge Corporation Limited, a founder and CEO of Turtle Technologies and CEO of Mohawk Internet Technologies.


The Fraternity - SAE - MONTANA Many of the founders/employees of Absoulte Poker can be linked to this Montana Fraternity.

SCOTT TOM
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/3742/culbg2.jpg
AP was started by Scott Tom and a few Ivy league friends back in 2003. Phil Tom and the other fathers of these kids bankrolled the venture, and Absolute Poker was born. Phil Tom is Scott Tom's FATHER, not his brother. The IP address that this 'other' account was logged in from was traced to the home cable modem of Scott Tom, CEO of Absolute poker. scott@rivieraltd.com is apparently the CEO, and is also the owner of account POTRIPPER. Scott Tom is also apparently the owner of the STEAMROLLER account.

If you guys remember, there were two people watching Potripper's table. One is #363; the other is assumed to be Potripper. That second account's email address is scott@rivieraltd.com. The IP address cross-references to someone named Scott Tom, who also appears to be an owner at AP. It should also be noted that the first part of the rivieraltd.com email is "scott@".

Scott Tom has been spamming poker forums as recently as June 2007 on behalf of Absolute Poker. Scott Tom has account at Ultimate Bet under the name of 'PotChopper'

From brsavage, a highly respected member of the poker community: "Scott Tom is not an ex employee of Absolute. He was at the sale from Excapsa to the AP ownership group, and we have him tied to AP in recent history and I have confirmed from parties within that he is in fact STILL in control of AP. He may be in seclusion in Panama, but his attorneys are acting at his behest in trying to maintain contol of AP."

Absolute's statement: "With respect to the claims that Scott Tom, a former Member of Team Absolute Poker, is in anyway involved in wrong-doing, Absolute Poker has requested a formal investigation into that matter as well. Mr. Tom has not been involved with Absolute Poker for over a year and to the best of our knowledge, information and belief has not had access to any of Absolute Poker’s systems, databases or information."

AJ GREEN
The Potripper account belongs to AJ Green, former Director of Operations at AP and Scott Tom's best friend. AJ Green is currently VP of operations at nine.com and the former director of operations at Absolute. AJ Green was formerly known as Allan Grimard and had a name change once moving to Costa Rica. AJ Green is also POTSLAMMER, he of the 3 posts shilling for AP in his only thread. As we already know, The Watchdog, who comes in to defend him and co-shill for AP in that thread, is probably Scott Tom. AJ Green/Potripper on AP [almost certainly] = FATRAISER on Stars.

BRENT BECKLEY
Director of Payments and Risk Management at Absolute Poker.
alumnus from SAE frat in Montana from 1999. President of Sigma Alpha Epsilon's UM chapter. That player is Brent Beckley, another major player at AP. Brent Beckley worked for AP when a poster propped there. He was a part of support and security. Brent Beckley's last known city of residence is Miami, which is the location of one of the cheater accounts. He was a frat brother of Scott Tom in Montana. Brent plays as RUNNINONMT on UB. His email is brent@rivieraltd.com and Brent is from the montana group of people who run Absolute. Steamroller, a cheating account, is known to have played from Miami.
Absolute Poker's recent press releases come out of Miami.

OSCAR HILT
Oscar Hilt = another one of Scott Tom's frat brothers, and was also employed by Absolute, as the CFO maybe?
CFO Oscar Hilt Tatum IV, although it seems that he sometimes goes by a combination of just 2 of those names such as Hilt Tatum IV or Oscar Hilt. This post doesn't have any big juicy dramabomb to reveal, just some facts culled about him from various corners of the internet.

- He is the CFO of Absolute Poker according to this page ( http://www.onlinecasinosandplayers.c...num=1189786905 ) which describes a recent incident where a plane skidded off a runway in Costa Rica. Interestingly, that incident just happened about a month ago, and the website where the article is reprinted (although far from authoritative) refers to Oscar as the CFO and Tom Scott as the CEO of both Absolute and UB (despite AP's protestations that Scott is no longer involved with the company). You can read the original article from nacion.com here, although it's translated from Spanish to English, I think: http://tinyurl.com/36sdcj
Scott Tom and Oscar's new wife (above) were also on that plane with him.
- There have also been references to Scott Tom now living and/or operating/pulling strings out of Panama. Oscar may be there too, evidenced by this page which appears to be a list of individuals granted residency status by the government of Panama, and has a listing for two Americans named "Oscar Hilt Tatum IV" and "Oscar Hilt Tatum III" for April 9th, 2007. (Note that their records don't have any listing for Scott Tom, at least not since Sept 2005 when the database begins.)

Absolute's Statement:"HILT TATUM IS COMPLETLEY UNCONECTED WITH THIS CASE - HE HAS NEVER BEEN THE CFO - HIS WIFE AND FAMILY ARE NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS INVESTIGATION - THE COMPANY IS TRYING TO DO THE RIGHT THING - I URGE YOU TO CONTACT THE MODS AND HAVE ALL PICTURES REMOVED - PLEASE TRY AND HELP THIS BEYOND THE CALL - AND THEY ARE AS INNOCENT AS ANYONE. "

WILLIAM WILLIS MCMANON - Frat allum from 1995
The speculation is that William McManon might be the user of the account "MCBill." MCBILL won a $100,000 dream package on absolute after little tournament play on the website. There are active McBill accounts at Full Tilt and PokerStars.

SHANE ALAN BLACKFORD - 1997 SAE Montana Allum.
Shane is the administrative contact for Innovative Data Solutions - a Costa Rican Company somehow related to Absoulte Poker. Shane was also a member of the SAE fraternity.

For further information on IDS Technical Consulting and how we can work with you, please contact us.

IDS Technical Consulting
Oficentro de Sebana
San Jose, Costa Rica
Telephone - 011-506-520-0525
Email - info@idsworld.net

Innovative Data Solutions
SBO 306, 7333 NW 54th Street
Miami, Florida 33166
United States
6786312244

DAVID CLAINER Senior Vice President at Absolute Poker

FRED ROMAN Affiliate Relations Manager for Absolute Poker


MARK SEIF
Mark seif has huge endorsement deal dating back from when Scott Tom is CEO of AP. Mark Seif has been seen in public with Scott Tom many times.
SEIF's QUESTIONABLE SESSION

ROGUE CONSULTANT
"Based upon our preliminary findings, it appears that the integrity of our poker system was compromised by a high-ranking trusted consultant employed by AP whose position gave him extraordinary access to certain security systems. As has been speculated in several online forums, this consultant devised a sophisticated scheme to manipulate internal systems to access third-party computers and accounts to view hole cards of other customers during play without their knowledge. As this consultant was aware of the details of our fraud detection process, the likelihood that the scheme would be uncovered through our normal procedures was minimized. We consider this security breach to be a horrendous and inexcusable offense." Hmmm.....



THE ACCOUNTS

Most of these account have recently won large buy-in tournaments on Absolute Poker. Many have similar questionable play. Most have played very few tornaments on Absolute before winning a large buy-in event.
----------------------------
USER 363 - Unknown - observed Table of Potripper in 1K win
1. This guy "enters" table 13 at 2007-09-12 21:02:14, which is 2 minutes and 14 seconds after the tourney started.
2. Table 13 is the table which POTRIPPER was playing on
3. He never leaves the table, which means he was observing the table until at least 11:20 PM EST (at least, that's how I understand this)
4. His IP address is based in Costa Rica.
5. This is the most damning. He is user id 363 at AP. That means he was created in the system very very early on. Most of these user ids are in the 6 or 7 figures.

The guy who was on the same IP as the user 363 had his email set to an email that is hosted by Kahnawake Gaming Commission.

Absolute's statement:"The results of that investigation indicated that to the best of Absolute Poker’s knowledge, information and belief there was no security breach. Specifically, Absolute Poker’s internal investigation determined that it is impossible for any person, device, program, script or other means to see hole cards."

Absolute's 2nd Statement:"Absolute Poker has identified an internal security breach that compromised our systems for a limited period of time."

GRAYCAT - Crushed High stakes limit games on Absolute. Chip dumped large amounts to SUPERCARDM55. GREYCAT won more that $100,000 in high stakes limit games on Absoulte. Might have never had a losing session.

DOUBLEDRAG -DOUBLEDRAG won huge amounts of money in high stakes no-limit games on Absoulte playing nearly every hand. DOUBLEDRAG chip dumped $200k and $300k to Romnaldo (or REYMNALDO) -THESE ARE 3 CONSECUTIVE HANDS where DOUBLEDRAG and ROMNALDO capped every street playing $200/$400 heads-up, only to have DOUBLEDRAG fold for one bet on the river. HERE
After cheating story became public DOUBLEDRAG dumped 27k on the tables.

STEAMROLLER
STEAMROLLER won the $150 buy-in on 8/19/2007 for $20,700. STEAMROLLER also won the $100 buy-in on 8/19/2007 for $1636. Absolute Poker admitted this account belongs to the Absolute Poker staff. Steamroller is linked to Scott Tom. STEAMROLLER was from Miami. Verified by report with Tom on July 27th under the STEAMROLLER account and email confirming from Absolute. Two different people have reported to Dan Druff that STEAMROLLER had flashed between $200k and $500k on the table in the past, bragging that he had "wired it in".


POTRIPPER - won $1K tournament on 9/12/2007 for $30,000. User #2234890 is POTRIPPER in the AP user database. POTRIPPER folded his first couple hands before the 363 observer entered the table... and that's when he started the suspicious activities. .xls file mistakenly sent out by Absoulte support.
YOU TUBE OF WIN

PAYUP - Won $1K on 8/23/2007 for $35,700. Sheets a well known internet pro commented: "but it was on august22, before the potripper tourney, where I got 2nd to one of the cheating accounts, Payup, in the 1k mtt.

Comments about this tournament from repsected player Sheets: "I laughed about Payups invincibility throughout the course of the tourney with inissint while on the phone but didnt think anything of it really until 2+2 started looking into the potripper tourney which i THINK occured later. I sent adanthar my hh for the payup tourney and he essentilly confirmed that the same shenanigans were involved and the payup account was also closed by AP.

sheets
"

MCBILL
There is speculation that this account is linked to another SAE Montana Fraternity brother - WILLIAM WILLIS MCMANON. On 10/7/2007 won $200 buy-in event for $100,000.

Montana resident and online poker player "MCBill" probably feels like he's struck gold this week after winning access to a possible over $100 million in online poker tournament prize pool money. Absolute Poker revealed that the online poker player hailing from Helena, Montana has won the 5th Absolute Dream Package on October 7th.

Re: AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT
 

[ QUOTE ]
el d,

it's surprising *how many* sources I have and how much completely irrelevant factoids I know about completely random Canadian Indians at this point.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where's Nat? He must have an opinion on this piece of shyt statement.

Re: AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT
 

The worst part is that I think the way El D layed it out is exactly how it will happen. Me knowing nothing of big business, I can only wonder; Is there nothing at all we can do as a community to really stick it to these guys?? I assume the answer is, "No". The story of a bunch of internet forum members making a difference in a corrupt company worth millions upon millions was romantic for awhile, but maybe in the end, the money will always win. That's really sad.

Re: AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT
 

[ QUOTE ]
I am the former Grand Chief of the Mohawk Territory of Kahnawake and the owner of Tokwiro Enterprises ENRG, which HOLDS A 100% interest in Absolute Poker.

Then, if they hold a 100% interest in AP, why did they remove AP from the list of pokersites they support ????!!!!

That's just non-sense !

They appear as the owner as for taxes not to be paid seems a more decent explanation.


I would say : follow the money to see who's the owner (I've been reading Malta ? Is that correct ?)

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. More smoke and mirrors and this "so-called" ownership structure imo has alot to do with the fact that native indians whose place of business is on reserve and who live on reserve do not pay income taxes in Canada.

Re: AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT
 

wp that your getting refunded if you got cheated and then hopefully never play on AP again.. best results that are gonna come out of this it seems...

Re: AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT
 

pokerstud, stop c/p'ing that file without editing out all the random stuff in it. for instance potslammer is an irrelevant 2+2 account and oscar133 is almost certainly innocent.

Re: AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT
 

[ QUOTE ]
el d,

it's surprising *how many* sources I have and how much completely irrelevant factoids I know about completely random Canadian Indians at this point.

[/ QUOTE ]

adanthar, can you just tell us whats really going on?

Re: AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT
 

All,

Unfortunately, like I've said for a while, the main result here is that people here can pat themselves on the back and say "awesome, we really showed them!" while nothing actually changes at all except maybe a short-term dip in Absolute's revenues.

On the plus side, at least it resulted in the people who got cheated by this one specific account getting their money back, so it definitely wasn't for nothing and definitely had a tangible positive result.

But in terms of long-term impact, none of this really matters at all.

Re: AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT
 

[ QUOTE ]
kawanahke is actually (*now*) legitimate and will remain that way from this point on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does this mean that they're going to be shutting Absolute down? I'm really hoping that's how this comes to pass. If KGC decides not to do much about it, then it seems like trouble, because I'm not sure people are going to want to take a hammer to KGC since that would affect pretty much all of the sites. EDIT: Barring that, I tend to agree with El D.

Re: AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT
 

seems to me that if they wanted to pursue it, the Canadians have a pretty good breach of contract suit here.

Re: AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT
 

p.s. I, too think that the compensation the aggrieved players get from Absolute should be &gt; 100% of the lost funds, but I really think we're exerting our energies inefficiently in trying to come up with a high-brow algorithm to derive a "logical" figure. I propose that we simply each get 150% of the amounts we lost to the cheaters. Simple, easy, and a reasonable premium.

Re: AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT
 

isn't gaming associates on the case? They seem like a nice third party...

Re: AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT
 

All,

Here's what has happened here.

There has been damning, widespread evidence of systematic internal fraud by Absolute.

A few people have worked very hard to get this exposed.

And the main result of all this is "OOPS, SORRY GUYS!"

That's the beauty of unregulated offshore cash cow businesses.

Re: AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT
 

[ QUOTE ]
p.s. I, too think that the compensation the aggrieved players get from Absolute should be &gt; 100% of the lost funds, but I really think we're exerting our energies inefficiently in trying to come up with a high-brow algorithm to derive a "logical" figure. I propose that we simply each get 150% of the amounts we lost to the cheaters. Simple, easy, and a reasonable premium.

[/ QUOTE ]


lol Teddy. What makes you think for even a nano-second that YOU get to set any terms here? I'm sorry, but you're dreaming.

Re: AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT
 

This is outrageous to say the least.

We need to use every avenue possible to bring this company down.

These criminals need to pay for their crimes, we can not let them go unpunished.


CAN ANYONE GET A COPY OF ALL ABSOLUTE'S CUSTOMERS E-MAIL ADDRESSES LEAKED TO THEM?

We have to use ANY means possible to get the word out.

Re: AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT
 

I have dissected the AP statement. All bolding is done by me for emphasis.


[ QUOTE ]
Dear AP Player:

I am the former Grand Chief of the Mohawk Territory of Kahnawake and the owner of Tokwiro Enterprises ENRG, which holds a 100% interest in Absolute Poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

And a 100% interest in the KGC. And a 100% interest in MIT.

[ QUOTE ]
As many of our players are aware, there has been a security breach in our system that allowed unlawful access to player information that resulted in unfair play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Admission that this was a criminal act.

[ QUOTE ]
I am writing to you today to let you know what we know so far in order to set the record straight, and to assure you of AP’s commitment to player security. I am sure that this letter will not address all of the questions and concerns you may have, nor will it extinguish the heated discussion surrounding this issue. At this point, our intention is to let you know all we can disclose and to assure you of our continued efforts to keep you informed as best we can as the investigations continue.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bolded statement is clearly included to discredit any further discussion of this statement and create the impression that their story is the truth in the larger player community and in the mass media.

[ QUOTE ]
We deeply regret this situation has occurred. A breach in security in online poker is serious and of great concern to players and the industry worldwide, and this particular situation has been the subject of debate within the poker player community and in the media, giving rise to the creation of several websites and hundreds and hundreds of comments, opinions, and theories of what occurred – some of which are accurate, and some that are not.

Like you, I have not been happy that during the initial stage of our investigation, AP has not been more forthcoming in providing a timely or comprehensive explanation on this matter, giving rise to anger, suspicion, and concern on the part of our valued customers. I hope that our customers can appreciate that this remains an incredibly complex and sensitive issue, and I want to give you my strongest possible assurance that we will be as forthcoming as possible on how this breach occurred and what we are doing to remedy the situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not been more forthcoming? Is that what you call repeatedly lying to customers and media over the course of months? It is fact that AP tried to cover this up. It is not "less than forthcoming". It is not incompetence. It is a coverup, a snowjob, a deliberate attempt to obfuscate the issue and those involved.

Regarding the second part, either Joe Norton is being lied to and telling us what he erroneously believes to be the truth, or this is just another blatant lie in AP arsenal of lies. Nothing AP ever says should ever be given credence again. Further, Joe Norton should be contacted directly and made aware that the information he is disseminating lies and misinformation. I can only hope that he holds some higher allegiance to his tribe and will put pressure on AP in order to save the integrity of his tribe.

[ QUOTE ]
What We Know and Actions We Have Taken

AP was notified by a customer that a possible cheating incident occurred during a recent tournament, and in response forwarded players’ hand logs. This disclosure of the hand logs prompted our customers to determine that a more serious security breach had occurred. We immediately launched an internal investigation and also requested a formal audit by Gaming Associates, an acknowledged world-wide expert in audits, interactive gaming tests, and information security.

[/ QUOTE ]

This statement ignores the month long investigation AP carried on into the cheating before the POTRIPPER HHs were leaked. Again, wether Joe Norton is being lied to, or he is lying himself, as this statement is outright false in that it ignores the fact that AP was notified of the cheating weeks before said tournament became the focal point.

Regarding the second point: (1) who is "we"? Is it Tokwiro Enterprises or AP? (2) There was, according to statements by AP, an open and ongoing investigation at the time. This statement is also false because AP can neither identify when an investigation began or even provide a lick of evidence that ANY "investigation" ever occurred. This continues to contradict what we know, their story keeps changing, and I expect it will continue to keep changing.

[ QUOTE ]
Based upon our preliminary findings, it appears that the integrity of our poker system was compromised by a high-ranking trusted consultant employed by AP whose position gave him extraordinary access to certain security systems. As has been speculated in several online forums, this consultant devised a sophisticated scheme to manipulate internal systems to access third-party computers and accounts to view hole cards of other customers during play without their knowledge. As this consultant was aware of the details of our fraud detection process, the likelihood that the scheme would be uncovered through our normal procedures was minimized. We consider this security breach to be a horrendous and inexcusable offense.

[/ QUOTE ]

Occam's Razor will have a nice time shredding this story. This "consultant" is going to be ins o many countries, in so many location, in so many accounts, that it will ridiculous. On the one hand I want to see AP try to piece this together and put out the "story" so that we can prove it wrong. But on the other hand its in their best interest to hide any details, so I expect we will never get more information than is contained here. Essentially "yeah, that one guy did it all, everything you said, he did" without any corroborating details.

[ QUOTE ]
We will pay for all losses suffered by the affected players as soon as our audit is finished and the amounts are determined. Although we are in the process of attempting to recover all the winnings of this consultant, any unrecovered losses of affected players will be paid by Absolute Poker so that all affected persons will be made whole.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good on them for making repayments to players. This is necessary.

However the bolded portion above directly contradicts their previous statements to MSNBC and ABC News. I wonder how those journalist would feel when they find out there were lied to? Because they will find out.

[ QUOTE ]
Next Steps

We are still investigating whether the consultant was acting alone or in concert with others, and it appears at this time that all account holders are innocent of collusion and were unaware of any wrong-doing by the consultant, who was immediately terminated.

[/ QUOTE ]

Many problems here. First, none of the account holders were ever accused of collusion, so this is a meaning less statement. Can AP prove that Scott Tom and AJ Green have never logged into AP within the last 3 months? Because if they can't, then obviously the account holders were in fact aware of the wrongdoing.

And last, the consultant was terminated? Why weren't charges filed? AP itself (its owner anyway) admits these acts were unlawful. If charges are not pressed AP, Tokwiro Enterprises, and Joe Norton are complicit in allowing the cheating to go unpunished.

[ QUOTE ]
We continue to investigate this matter aggressively, and all of these preliminary findings are subject to the audits currently underway. We have recently uncovered additional accounts used by the consultant that have not been publicly reported. So as to not compromise the investigation, we are not releasing the names of these additional accounts at this time, and will contact these affected customers individually.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good. We need a timeframe for the audits. We need transparency. And we need evidence, not just conclusions.

[ QUOTE ]
The specific allegations of unlawful activity are being investigated both by AP and by the authorized authorities, including the Kahnawake Gaming Commission.

[/ QUOTE ]

I want this to be perfectly clear. Tokwinro Enterprises is a 100% owner of Absolute Poker and is also the owner of the Kahnawake Gaming Commission. They are "investigating" themselves.

[ QUOTE ]
We will continue to actively cooperate with these authorities in full compliance with the Regulations Concerning Interactive Gaming. In addition to our own investigation and the audit by Gaming Associates, we have also submitted to an audit by the Kahnawake Gaming Commission.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[ QUOTE ]
Please be assured that we have corrected the problem that allowed the system to be unfairly manipulated. We are working furiously to increase the safeguards within our systems. While we are satisfied that our systems are secured, we realize that our security systems must be continuously monitored and enhanced.

[/ QUOTE ]

My apologies if I'm not assured that the problem has been "corrected". These are the same people who were given the exact account names and hands that were involved in the cheating and couldn't find anything in a month long investigation. And now, virtually overnight, they solved the problem? This is laughable, and appears to be just another baseless statement in the coverup of this scandal.

And yes, you system do need to be monitored and enhanced. You must bring in outside experts. Try one of the big consulting firms. This will go a long way to restoring confidence.

[ QUOTE ]
Without question, this incident has been unfortunate for all concerned, and we will emerge as a stronger company. I realize it will take some time and much more information for AP to re-earn the trust and confidence of our customers who are in doubt of our commitment to the highest levels of security, privacy and integrity. As we move to address and correct this situation, our valued customers have played a vital role in uncovering this scheme through various online forums and have become an active part of the solution.

[/ QUOTE ]

This statement is filled with lies and only continues the cover up, and does nothing to restore consumer confidence and trust.

More transparency. More openness. More audits. More independent observers. You can come out of this, but furthering the snowjob is not the way.

[ QUOTE ]
With my full sincerity, I thank you, and I promise to keep you updated as we bring this situation to a close.

Sincerely,

Joe Norton

[/ QUOTE ]

With my full sincerity, I tell you Joe Norton you are being lied to if you believe the things in your statement. We want safe games, the same as you. Please help us.