Re: Beat: Absolute is *actually* rigged (serious) (read me)
 

wa wa wee wa

Re: Beat: Absolute is *actually* rigged (serious) (read me)
 

jesus... assuming that this guy actually can see peoples cards (and based on those stats i don't really see how anything else is possible)... how retarded does he have to be to be this obvious about it?

Re: Beat: Absolute is *actually* rigged (serious) (read me)
 

Is that meant to be 00 on the River AF for 200/400? Because it's a different font.

Re: Beat: Absolute is *actually* rigged (serious) (read me)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Is that meant to be 00 on the River AF for 200/400? Because it's a different font.

[/ QUOTE ]

infinity

Re: Beat: Absolute is *actually* rigged (serious) (read me)
 

infinityyyyyyyy

Re: Beat: Absolute is *actually* rigged (serious) (read me)
 

Thats only 537 hands. Also wasnt dan the guy who was convinced that pokerstars was rigged and because of that wouldnt play there.

Re: Beat: Absolute is *actually* rigged (serious) (read me)
 

[ QUOTE ]
jesus... assuming that this guy actually can see peoples cards (and based on those stats i don't really see how anything else is possible)... how retarded does he have to be to be this obvious about it?

[/ QUOTE ]

seriously, just play so that your stats will be similar to an excellent player and get free monies ad infinitum. really glad this person(s) is an idiot, however.

Re: Beat: Absolute is *actually* rigged (serious) (read me)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Thats only 537 hands. Also wasnt dan the guy who was convinced that pokerstars was rigged and because of that wouldnt play there.

[/ QUOTE ]

there are other screenshots, I'm just posting a bunch of stuff at random from that thread. another person who is convinced at this point is schneids.

Re: Beat: Absolute is *actually* rigged (serious) (read me)
 

[ QUOTE ]
there are lots of people involved

[/ QUOTE ]

this makes it much more likely that there is a flaw in the software and not a bunch of godly superuser accounts that have all been compromised

Re: Beat: Absolute is *actually* rigged (serious) (read me)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Thats only 537 hands. Also wasnt dan the guy who was convinced that pokerstars was rigged and because of that wouldnt play there.

[/ QUOTE ]

there are other screenshots, I'm just posting a bunch of stuff at random from that thread. another person who is convinced at this point is schneids.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok ty. Sounds better(or worse) now.

Re: Beat: Absolute is *actually* rigged (serious) (read me)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
jesus... assuming that this guy actually can see peoples cards (and based on those stats i don't really see how anything else is possible)... how retarded does he have to be to be this obvious about it?

[/ QUOTE ]

seriously, just play so that your stats will be similar to an excellent player and get free monies ad infinitum. really glad this person(s) is an idiot, however.

[/ QUOTE ]

you guys seem to be missing the implications here

assuming that this is a software flaw that anyone can exploit if they figure it out, why do you think this guy is the first guy to do it?

Re: Beat: Absolute is *actually* rigged (serious) (read me)
 

mason, we don't know what's going on. that's the point.

Re: Beat: Absolute is *actually* rigged (serious) (read me)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But I agree I think we're going to need to see more than one HH per account to make sure it isn't just some drunk guy with a load of cash. I mean, are these people playing a LOT or what's up?

[/ QUOTE ]

there is an account running at 65/50 at HS limit with a 75% W@SD. that account coldcaps preflop from the BB then check/folds the flop on a 522 board when someone flops a full house. over, and over, and over.

oh yeah and the ten high call HU on the turn of the toughest weekly tournament ever by a guy who busted within 5 minutes in the only two other low stakes donkaments he's ever played.

[/ QUOTE ]

On the surface this seems pretty damning, but it isnt close to conclusive and i hope there is more info in the thread that got moved.

Speaking of which, i cant possibly understand why a mod would move such a thread - is 2+2 is the market of protecting cheating and scamming or something?

Re: Beat: Absolute is *actually* rigged (serious) (read me)
 

[ QUOTE ]
mason, we don't know what's going on. that's the point.

[/ QUOTE ]

but we can say we do

Re: Beat: Absolute is *actually* rigged (serious) (read me)
 

yah i know, i'm just saying that just because this guy is an idiot doesn't mean someone else hasnt' done this (for years maybe who knows).

but you're right that at least someone was an idiot about whatever it is

Re: Beat: Absolute is *actually* rigged (serious) (read me)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Speaking of which, i cant possibly understand why a mod would move such a thread - is 2+2 is the market of protecting cheating and scamming or something?

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably just trying to keep this from happening before all the facts are out:

http://vwt.d2g.com:8081/vwt.jpg

Re: Beat: Absolute is *actually* rigged (serious) (read me)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But I agree I think we're going to need to see more than one HH per account to make sure it isn't just some drunk guy with a load of cash. I mean, are these people playing a LOT or what's up?

[/ QUOTE ]

there is an account running at 65/50 at HS limit with a 75% W@SD. that account coldcaps preflop from the BB then check/folds the flop on a 522 board when someone flops a full house. over, and over, and over.

oh yeah and the ten high call HU on the turn of the toughest weekly tournament ever by a guy who busted within 5 minutes in the only two other low stakes donkaments he's ever played.

[/ QUOTE ]

On the surface this seems pretty damning, but it isnt close to conclusive and i hope there is more info in the thread that got moved.

Speaking of which, i cant possibly understand why a mod would move such a thread - is 2+2 is the market of protecting cheating and scamming or something?

[/ QUOTE ]

legal implications, yo

also, plz to be making me mod, one time?

Re: Beat: Absolute is *actually* rigged (serious) (read me)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Speaking of which, i cant possibly understand why a mod would move such a thread - is 2+2 is the market of protecting cheating and scamming or something?

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably just trying to keep this from happening before all the facts are out:

http://vwt.d2g.com:8081/vwt.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

the problem with that is a)a bunch of facts *were* out and b)after reading this and IM'ing people, I was told about the MTT hand in less than five minutes, meaning the limit thread was missing some obvious evidence.

security through obscurity doesn't work with poker sites ffs.

Re: Beat: Absolute is *actually* rigged (serious) (read me)
 

its probably some guy who got root access in absolute servers, and is able to access the memory of the server that is storing card information. very unlikely that absolute actually made accounts that displays all the cards, they cant be that stupid.

Re: Beat: Absolute is *actually* rigged (serious) (read me)
 

I didn't really read this thread, but I've always said Absolute is the site that is actually rigged. Everyone runs super hot right after signing up.

Re: Beat: Absolute is *actually* rigged (serious) (read me)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I didn't really read this thread, but I've always said Absolute is the site that is actually rigged. Everyone runs super hot right after signing up.

[/ QUOTE ]

false

Re: Beat: Absolute is *actually* rigged (serious) (read me)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I didn't really read this thread, but I've always said Absolute is the site that is actually rigged. Everyone runs super hot right after signing up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where do I sign up?

Re: Beat: Absolute is *actually* rigged (serious) (read me) *DELETED*
 

Post deleted by Gildwulf

Re: Beat: Absolute is *actually* rigged (serious) (read me)
 

lolol potripper

Re: Beat: Absolute is *actually* rigged (serious) (read me)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I didn't really read this thread, but I've always said Absolute is the site that is actually rigged. Everyone runs super hot right after signing up.

[/ QUOTE ]
false

[/ QUOTE ]Well, at limit anyway. I used to prop there a year or so ago with a bunch of other guys, and just about everyone I talked to had the same experience. Just uncanny initial heaters.

Re: Beat: Absolute is *actually* rigged (serious) (read me)
 

[ QUOTE ]
its probably some guy who got root access in absolute servers, and is able to access the memory of the server that is storing card information. very unlikely that absolute actually made accounts that displays all the cards, they cant be that stupid.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, but "superuser account" is like the coolest-sounding thing ever.

Re: Beat: Absolute is *actually* rigged (serious) (read me)
 

I'm down 2900 to the superuser account GRAYCAT at 15/30...

but I can't find any big hands he won.. wtf? I won this off him

STAGE #653188419: HOLDEM NO LIMIT $30 - 2007-05-10 03:23:44 (ET)
Table: DEERE AVE (Real Money) Seat #6 is the dealer
Seat 6 - MBLOOM1 ($3034 in chips)
Seat 5 - GRAYCAT ($7841 in chips)
MBLOOM1 - Posts small blind $15
GRAYCAT - Posts big blind $30
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to MBLOOM1 [Qd Qs]
MBLOOM1 - Raises $84 to $99
GRAYCAT - Raises $258 to $288
MBLOOM1 - Raises $579 to $678
GRAYCAT - All-In(Raise) $7553 to $7841
MBLOOM1 - All-In $2356
GRAYCAT - returned ($4807) : not called
*** FLOP *** [3c 10h 5h]
*** TURN *** [3c 10h 5h] [7c]
*** RIVER *** [3c 10h 5h 7c] [6s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
GRAYCAT - Shows [9c 9h] (One pair, nines)
MBLOOM1 - Shows [Qd Qs] (One pair, queens)
MBLOOM1 Collects $6067 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot($6068) | Rake ($1)
Board [3c 10h 5h 7c 6s]
Seat 5: GRAYCAT (big blind) HI:lost with One pair, nines [9c 9h - P:9h,P:9c,B:10h,B:7c,B:6s]
Seat 6: MBLOOM1 (dealer) (small blind) won Total ($6067) All-In HI:($6067) with One pair, queens [Qd Qs - P:Qs,P:Qd,B:10h,B:7c,B:6s]

Re: Beat: Absolute is *actually* rigged (serious) (read me)
 

I have a database containing over 200,000 recent hands I have played on Absolute for all NL games up to 15/30NL. I did not find graycat. Someone give me other screen names to look for. Obviously my database is at 2+2's disposal.

Re: Beat: Absolute is *actually* rigged (serious) (read me)
 

Stage #896976330 Tourney ID 1883389 Holdem Multi Normal Tournament No Limit $4500 - 2007-09-13 01:43:49 (ET)
Table: 14 (Real Money) Seat #3 is the dealer
Seat 3 - POTRIPPER ($765740 in chips)
Seat 8 - CRAZYMARCO ($214260 in chips)
POTRIPPER - Ante $450
CRAZYMARCO - Ante $450
POTRIPPER - Posts small blind $2250
CRAZYMARCO - Posts big blind $4500
*** POCKET CARDS ***
POTRIPPER - Calls $2250
CRAZYMARCO - Checks
*** FLOP *** [4h Kd Kh]
CRAZYMARCO - Checks
POTRIPPER - Bets $9000
CRAZYMARCO - Calls $9000
*** TURN *** [4h Kd Kh] [7s]
CRAZYMARCO - Checks
POTRIPPER - Bets $13500
CRAZYMARCO - All-In(Raise) $200310 to $200310
POTRIPPER - Calls $186810
*** RIVER *** [4h Kd Kh 7s] [5s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
POTRIPPER - Shows [10c 9c] (One pair, kings)
CRAZYMARCO - Shows [9h 2h] (One pair, kings)
POTRIPPER Collects $428520 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot($428520)
Board [4h Kd Kh 7s 5s]
Seat 3: POTRIPPER (dealer) (small blind) won Total ($428520) HI:($428520) with One pair, kings(ten kicker) [10c 9c - B:Kh,B:Kd,P:10c,P:9c,B:7s]
Seat 8: CRAZYMARCO (big blind) HI:lost with One pair, kings [9h 2h - B:Kh,B:Kd,P:9h,B:7s,B:5s]



[/ QUOTE ]

wait.. so you're saying you woudln't call that? thats an instacall phil hellmuth style in my opinion!

Re: Beat: Absolute is *actually* rigged (serious) (read me)
 

In 186 hands of HU, his River Agg was 11 at 15/30 vs. me

Re: Beat: Absolute is *actually* rigged (serious) (read me)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
its probably some guy who got root access in absolute servers, and is able to access the memory of the server that is storing card information. very unlikely that absolute actually made accounts that displays all the cards, they cant be that stupid.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, but "superuser account" is like the coolest-sounding thing ever.

[/ QUOTE ]

At lunch today my girlfriend asked me if she should get soup or salad.. I was SOOOO stoked that Bob Evans had a Supersalad. Then, letdown. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: Beat: Absolute is *actually* rigged (serious) (read me)
 

okay, dan druff's post:

[ QUOTE ]
I've played a whole lot on AP this year, especially over the summer.

Oddly enough, I missed out on most of the Greycat/Supercard/etc. games due to sheer coincidences of timing (basically I'd be out or sleeping when he'd show up). Still, I played about 10 sessions with the guy, including one heads up, and noticed exactly what everyone else is noticing:

1) His hand selection pre-flop is so bad (especially 9 handed) that he should be losing a fortune against the top-flight players he's been facing. Instead, he's been winning big almost every session.

2) It is very rare that he will fold if you miss the flop.

3) When you are holding a huge hand, he folds often.

Basically, yes, he plays like someone who can see your cards. But that's nothing new to anyone on this thread. I've played against legitimate players who have run so well that I'd swear they could see my hand if I didn't know better. We've also all seen examples of huge donks running up amazing short-term streaks that we never thought were possible -- including odd plays that leave us scratching our heads.

So what's the difference here? Perhaps nothing, perhaps something. But the evidence we've seen so far, some anecdotal, others more damning, makes this worth another look.

Before I go on, I can confirm that Greycat, Supercard, and the other suspect accounts posted here ARE indeed the same person. This isn't an assumption or a guess. It's a fact. PM me if you want me to explain this part further.

So we have this Greycat person playing on multiple accounts -- sometimes chipdumping between them -- and playing the highest games Absolute Poker has to offer. He plays both limit and no limit, yet top regular players from both games report the same suspicious experience with him.

He has won a ton of money (does anyone have the exact figures?), and rarely seems to lose.

If he is cheating, I think I know how he's doing it.

Long before Greycat showed up, there was some concern that AP had a "superuser" account, created by its software developers. This account, created strictly for testing purposes, would be able to see all cards of all players in all games. As a software programmer by trade, I can tell you that such an account would be very helpful in the development and testing process for a complicated piece of software like AP. I referred to there being "some concern" that such an account exists. I say this because I have some circumstantial evidence (which I can't share in public) that this is true, but I don't have any proof. Furthermore, prior to this Greycat situation, I had no reason to believe that this account ever fell into the wrong hands.

But what if it did fall into the wrong hands? Perhaps someone could have hacked it. Perhaps a rogue ex-developer of the software could have passed some info along to an accomplice. Perhaps a lot of things.

The fact is that, if Greycat did get access to such an account, he'd pretty much be doing exactly what he's doing now. Yes, maybe some subtlety would have done him better (so as to avoid this suspicion), but history is full of criminals whose otherwise brilliant capers were foiled by just a bit too much greed.

It's time to stop guessing and get some answers here. Obviously AP will never admit their system was compromised, even if it were true. That would pretty much be the equivalent of poker room suicide. We need to put together a concrete plan of action to either prove this guy is a fraud, or prove to ourselves that we're a bunch of paranoid fools. Either way, we need to prove something. In the next post, I'll give my suggestions on what I feel we should do next.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Beat: Absolute is *actually* rigged (serious) (read me)
 

Biggest pot that he won that went to showdown against me was 3k. He seemed to bet the [censored] out of me at perfect spots.

STAGE #653194230: HOLDEM NO LIMIT $30 - 2007-05-10 03:38:38 (ET)
Table: DEERE AVE (Real Money) Seat #5 is the dealer
Seat 5 - GRAYCAT ($5779 in chips)
Seat 6 - MBLOOM1 ($5082 in chips)
GRAYCAT - Posts small blind $15
MBLOOM1 - Posts big blind $30
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to MBLOOM1 [Kd 10d]
GRAYCAT - Raises $135 to $150
MBLOOM1 - Calls $120
*** FLOP *** [5c Ks Qd]
MBLOOM1 - Checks
GRAYCAT - Bets $150
MBLOOM1 - Calls $150
*** TURN *** [5c Ks Qd] [10s]
MBLOOM1 - Checks
GRAYCAT - Bets $330
MBLOOM1 - Raises $1234 to $1234
GRAYCAT - Calls $904
*** RIVER *** [5c Ks Qd 10s] [Ah]
MBLOOM1 - Checks
GRAYCAT - All-In $4245
MBLOOM1 - Folds
GRAYCAT - returned ($4245) : not called
*** SHOW DOWN ***
GRAYCAT - Does not show
GRAYCAT Collects $3067 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot($3068) | Rake ($1)
Board [5c Ks Qd 10s Ah]
Seat 5: GRAYCAT (dealer) (small blind) collected Total ($3067) All-In HI:($3067) [Does not show]
Seat 6: MBLOOM1 (big blind) Folded on the RIVER


STAGE #653190338: HOLDEM NO LIMIT $30 - 2007-05-10 03:28:46 (ET)
Table: DEERE AVE (Real Money) Seat #5 is the dealer
Seat 5 - GRAYCAT ($4659 in chips)
Seat 6 - MBLOOM1 ($6212 in chips)
GRAYCAT - Posts small blind $15
MBLOOM1 - Posts big blind $30
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to MBLOOM1 [Kd Ac]
GRAYCAT - Raises $135 to $150
MBLOOM1 - Raises $666 to $696
GRAYCAT - Calls $546
*** FLOP *** [9h 2h 4c]
MBLOOM1 - Checks
GRAYCAT - Checks
*** TURN *** [9h 2h 4c] [5h]
MBLOOM1 - Checks
GRAYCAT - Bets $630
MBLOOM1 - Calls $630
*** RIVER *** [9h 2h 4c 5h] [Qc]
MBLOOM1 - Checks
GRAYCAT - Bets $840
MBLOOM1 - Folds
GRAYCAT - returned ($840) : not called
*** SHOW DOWN ***
GRAYCAT - Does not show
GRAYCAT Collects $2651 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot($2652) | Rake ($1)
Board [9h 2h 4c 5h Qc]
Seat 5: GRAYCAT (dealer) (small blind) collected Total ($2651) HI:($2651) [Does not show]
Seat 6: MBLOOM1 (big blind) Folded on the RIVER

Re: Beat: Absolute is *actually* rigged (serious) (read me)
 

this is crazy

Re: Beat: Absolute is *actually* rigged (serious) (read me)
 

I only have 16 hands on DoubleDrag and didn't notice anything abnormal.

Re: Beat: Absolute is *actually* rigged (serious) (read me)
 

in the other thread, is there mention of dan or someone contacting ap?

Re: Beat: Absolute is *actually* rigged (serious) (read me)
 

Also:

Brag: Up exactly $100,000ish after 200,000handsish
Beat: Can never play absolute higher limits after this thread
Variance: Dropped 10k playing the supposedly rigged limits a few days ago?!?!?!

Re: Beat: Absolute is *actually* rigged (serious) (read me)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Also:

Brag: Up exactly $100,000ish

[/ QUOTE ]

lol

Re: Beat: Absolute is *actually* rigged (serious) (read me)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Thats only 537 hands. Also wasnt dan the guy who was convinced that pokerstars was rigged and because of that wouldnt play there.

[/ QUOTE ]

there are other screenshots, I'm just posting a bunch of stuff at random from that thread. another person who is convinced at this point is schneids.

[/ QUOTE ]

So. Basically you're saying this is how Schneids makes 3 BB/100? I'm starting to put the pieces together now.

Re: Beat: Absolute is *actually* rigged (serious) (read me)
 

Ap blackjack is rigged too!!.. I want Shaun deeb on the taskforce to test it out