Re: New Software: Holdem Manager
 

Here is the Summary View again this time with just 3/4 Bet stats selected in the stats to return. You can choose more stats, in fact you can return all of them at once if you want, but the more you add the slower it gets especially when the DB is in the multi millions of hands.

My current DB is up over 5 million hands and after spending about 2 to 3 minutes doing a Compress and Analyze (which should probably be done once every million hands or so) through PostgreSQL this report took 20 seconds to run and returned stats from about 4000 players who I have more than 1K hands on!

http://www.rvgsoftware.com/hm/playersummary3bet.jpg

You'll notice on the 3bet stats that it totals slightly above 100%. Still need to fix this as it includes 5 bet results in with the 3bet results.

rvg

Re: New Software: Holdem Manager
 

And one more screen shot for tonight - this is the Filter Creator since there have been a bunch of hand filtering questions.

This tab shows what you can do with Hand Values - in this example I'm looking for hands where I had top pair on the flop but an overcard landed on the turn.

http://www.rvgsoftware.com/hm/filterhandvalues.jpg

rvg

Re: New Software: Holdem Manager
 

[ QUOTE ]
The approach I have taken now is to make it as easy as possible for other people to write hand history parsers for sites but I will still oversee and manage it all at a code level to make sure everything is safe for HM users.


[/ QUOTE ]

This sounds like a great idea. Both safe and efficient!

Your product looks very good, cannot wait to use it. For price i would suggest:
100 dollar to buy it.
20 dollar subscription every two year to get the updateded versions.

Re: New Software: Holdem Manager
 

hi, i'm also very interest in this product.
but can you add a few thing to it.
1)option to import HH from not support site. (we can tell the software which line goes to where on the software).
2) vista support with aero on.
3)auto lineup when table is resized. (something PAhud can't do)

Re: New Software: Holdem Manager
 

[ QUOTE ]
hi, i'm also very interest in this product.
but can you add a few thing to it.
1)option to import HH from not support site. (we can tell the software which line goes to where on the software).
2) vista support with aero on.
3)auto lineup when table is resized. (something PAhud can't do)

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi,

1) I will be publishing the xml format for hands so you could create a parser that converts your hand histories into this format and then, HM will support the site. However, in general I'd rather you just send me the hand histories and I'll make sure the site is supported.

2) It is written in C# 2.0 using "Aero Aware" controls so I think it should work well in Vista. I don't currently have Vista but will be installing it soon.

3) Earlier versions of my HUD supported this although it wasn't perfect. Resizing is pretty much standard now in poker clients so I'll be doing what I can to make this work as well as possible.

Thanks.

rvg

Re: New Software: Holdem Manager
 

I'd like to see this priced around the $100-150 mark, with major upgrades (new features/rewrites rather than bug fixes) priced at ~$30.

To ensure you don't spend time supporting old versions you could make it clear that each version will be retired from support after a certain period of time has elapsed following the release of a subsequent version.

If everyone understands this from the off, then I don't see a problem.

Re: New Software: Holdem Manager
 

I posted this on my forums a little while ago. It isn't 100% certain but pretty close.

Pricing

It seems like everyone is suggesting basically the same thing and it is pretty much in line with what I was thinking.

Pricing will be $65 for the manager and $35 for the HUD. They will be sold seperately. I'll need to come up with some way to ensure that people don't buy 1 copy and then give it to all of their buddies but whatever I do it won't be intrusive. My approach with Tourney Manager was basically "if you buy it once you don't pay for it again" and I've been handing out codes whenever asked. With HM I'll need to take a slightly different approach but for the most part it will be the same hassle free experience!

Tourney Manager customers will get the manager for $55 and the HUD for $30 for the first month following the official launch. Holdem Manager does not replace Tourney Manager - it will in fact work with Tourney Manager and I will be spending a bunch of time adding new functionality to Tourney Manager in the near future.

There will be no support fee or ongoing subscription fee of any kind at this point. If support becomes a huge burden then I might need to re-evaluate this but I don't expect this to change. I might create (or purchase) very large, very value added plugins and charge a small fee for them although I don't have any specific plans at the moment. Right now every single idea in my head for this program will be included with the program - I'm just throwing out the plugin thing because it might happen some day.

I think that's it!

rvg

Re: New Software: Holdem Manager
 

I have no problem paying 100 bucks for the program, but the problem is that I have a desktop and laptop in SF and a desktop and laptop in LA. And who knows when I'll be upgrading my comp. What I'm saying is that I just don't want it to be a big hassle if I want to install it on my comp. And my guess is, most that are buying this can probably afford to not give it to their friends.

Re: New Software: Holdem Manager
 

I'd say this pricing is waay too low.. but I'll take it [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: New Software: Holdem Manager
 

[ QUOTE ]
I posted this on my forums a little while ago. It isn't 100% certain but pretty close.

Pricing

It seems like everyone is suggesting basically the same thing and it is pretty much in line with what I was thinking.

Pricing will be $65 for the manager and $35 for the HUD. They will be sold seperately. I'll need to come up with some way to ensure that people don't buy 1 copy and then give it to all of their buddies but whatever I do it won't be intrusive. My approach with Tourney Manager was basically "if you buy it once you don't pay for it again" and I've been handing out codes whenever asked. With HM I'll need to take a slightly different approach but for the most part it will be the same hassle free experience!

Tourney Manager customers will get the manager for $55 and the HUD for $30 for the first month following the official launch. Holdem Manager does not replace Tourney Manager - it will in fact work with Tourney Manager and I will be spending a bunch of time adding new functionality to Tourney Manager in the near future.

There will be no support fee or ongoing subscription fee of any kind at this point. If support becomes a huge burden then I might need to re-evaluate this but I don't expect this to change. I might create (or purchase) very large, very value added plugins and charge a small fee for them although I don't have any specific plans at the moment. Right now every single idea in my head for this program will be included with the program - I'm just throwing out the plugin thing because it might happen some day.

I think that's it!

rvg

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you use a system with a registration server like PokerAce, instead of the one used with Tourney Manager? I'm anal about performance, and reinstall my OS several times a year. With PokerAce, you get 1 permanent key you can use on 2 PCs. The software checks with a server occasionally to make sure you're key isn't being given out. I hate they way most poker software changes the key with each new OS reinstall, and it creates more work for the software author as well.

Re: New Software: Holdem Manager
 

will it work with Spade Eye?

Re: New Software: Holdem Manager
 

[ QUOTE ]
I have no problem paying 100 bucks for the program, but the problem is that I have a desktop and laptop in SF and a desktop and laptop in LA. And who knows when I'll be upgrading my comp. What I'm saying is that I just don't want it to be a big hassle if I want to install it on my comp. And my guess is, most that are buying this can probably afford to not give it to their friends.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just want to make it really clear that this won't be a problem. You will be able to run more than one copy at a time and you will be able to get new codes when you buy new computers / format your current computer and it will all be pain free. You send me an e-mail I send you a new code.

Edit: I might even make it more automated than this where customers would have a login on my site and be able to activeate and deactivate codes. That takes work though so at least initially it will be e-mail based.

rvg

Re: New Software: Holdem Manager
 

[ QUOTE ]
will it work with Spade Eye?

[/ QUOTE ]

The developer of Spade Eye already said he'd be supporting it. Hopefully Sixth Sense will as well although they haven't mentioned anything.

rvg

Re: New Software: Holdem Manager
 

Pricing sounds great, and I certainly appreciate the discount as I just purchased tourney manager.

Everything you've posted so far looks great.

My question is where do holdem manager and tourney manager overlap feature wise? What does tourney manager do that holdem manager will not?

Re: New Software: Holdem Manager
 

[ QUOTE ]
My question is where do holdem manager and tourney manager overlap feature wise? What does tourney manager do that holdem manager will not?

[/ QUOTE ]

Tourney Manager is really dedicated to managing tourney results in a very easy to use manner with lots of result based filters and charts and graphs.

Holdem Manager, as far as tourneys are concerned, comes in at a much more micro level giving you hand and opponent analysis down to the BB/M remaining for each player on each hand. Results can still be imported from tourneys but your results view in terms of dollars is limited to the income tab which combines all forms of poker income.

So, to sum it up, HM has 1 tab that lets you do charting and some basic analysis for tourney results vs TM where the entire app is dedicated to this.

rvg

Re: New Software: Holdem Manager
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My question is where do holdem manager and tourney manager overlap feature wise? What does tourney manager do that holdem manager will not?

[/ QUOTE ]

Tourney Manager is really dedicated to managing tourney results in a very easy to use manner with lots of result based filters and charts and graphs.

Holdem Manager, as far as tourneys are concerned, comes in at a much more micro level giving you hand and opponent analysis down to the BB/M remaining for each player on each hand. Results can still be imported from tourneys but your results view in terms of dollars is limited to the income tab which combines all forms of poker income.

So, to sum it up, HM has 1 tab that lets you do charting and some basic analysis for tourney results vs TM where the entire app is dedicated to this.

rvg

[/ QUOTE ]
is possible to make a version with both TM and HM in?
when will it be available?

Re: New Software: Holdem Manager
 

the site i need to convert is mansion
but i heard they are moving to ipoke network. so no point to work support for it.
but i still have whole bunch old HH i want to convert.....

Re: New Software: Holdem Manager
 

Can't wait.

Re: New Software: Holdem Manager
 

So this will basically be an alternative to pt/pa ?
wow the 3betting preflop stuff and the interface are really looking great [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Re: New Software: Holdem Manager
 

So, are the Poker Tracker people responding in any way to what looks like their first considerable challenge?

Re: New Software: Holdem Manager
 

I don't think we will hear anything PT/PA HUD until this thing is actually released and reviews start to come in. There has been competition to these programs before and none have really managed to get any market share. But in my opinion none have looked anywhere near as well thought out and feature rich as this one.

Besides they might have the attitude that inertia may keep people using PT regardless of this new product. I reckon the vast majority of people (even mid stakes players) simply track there win/loses, look at their VPIP/PFR and replay at the odd hand. And for PA HUD just have the standard HUD up there, with the odd extra stat.

For those kind of people, are they going to be willing to shell out another $100-150, who know the answer to that. I think it depends a lot of how this new product is received.

I floated the idea of a major overhaul of the PT (PT v3 if you like) a little while ago on the PT forums. I stated the need for stuff like 3-betting, faster importing etc etc for serious players. I suggested that this could be funded by an upgrade fee (along the lines that PO did 12-18 months ago), and gradual removal of support for PT v2. The response with pretty much silence.

Re: New Software: Holdem Manager
 

100$ is ridiculously underpriced. You should be selling this for $500 MINIMUM and imo more in the 1k-2k range.

Oh and a question - you said you have 170 fields per player per hand. This sort of suggests you've gone the PT route of having a field for possible stats as opposed to just transforming the data to where any possible stat is easily extracted. Is there data loss in the import? and if so how much for betting information and hand/board strength information?

Re: New Software: Holdem Manager
 

[ QUOTE ]
100$ is ridiculously underpriced. You should be selling this for $500 MINIMUM and imo more in the 1k-2k range.

Oh and a question - you said you have 170 fields per player per hand. This sort of suggests you've gone the PT route of having a field for possible stats as opposed to just transforming the data to where any possible stat is easily extracted. Is there data loss in the import? and if so how much for betting information and hand/board strength information?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi,

The original hand history and the standard transformed xml based hand history (which is kind of what you are referring to I believe since this is a complete representation of the hand) are both available but a "PlayerHands" table with extracted values per player per hand is necessary otherwise performance would quickly take a nose dive.

Your concerns however are valid and I do have mechanisms to deal with this to ensure that the DB design at launch can be modified somewhat on the fly. Also, the DB design at Beta launch will likely change somewhat with new fields and potentially new tables based on feedback. As recently as a couple of days ago I added a bunch of new "3 barrel" stats for both the raiser and the player facing the 3rd raise on the river. I tried to make it as complete as possible but already I'm coming up with additional things I want to track.

One other thing that I'm going to be a little vague about and not talk about again until launch is that you do have the ability to create your own stats and have them appear in reports and the HUD. For example, you could make a "check raise turn all-in after check calling the flop" stat and call it the OOP Float Push. The ability to do things like this are more for me so that I can more easily make changes in the future but creative HM users have a lot of power under the hood to mess around with.

Regarding hand strengths, you might want to check out the hand value filter screen shot. For every hand on every street I have over 60 made hand values along with about 10 flush draw and 6 straight draw values.

Hope that answers your questions,

rvg

Re: New Software: Holdem Manager
 

[ QUOTE ]

is possible to make a version with both TM and HM in?
when will it be available?

[/ QUOTE ]

July 15th is public beta and I am toying around with the idea of making TM run as a plugin within HM but that won't happen any time soon. More likely I will have extra features built into TM that can use some of the new things HM brings to the table and vice versa.

rvg

Re: New Software: Holdem Manager
 

[ QUOTE ]
100$ is ridiculously underpriced. You should be selling this for $500 MINIMUM and imo more in the 1k-2k range.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you are dreaming. It is a nice compliment, but not more than that. You are forgetting a few things:

It isn't entering a virgin market area. It is entering one with a couple of established giants, starting with the market reference, Poker Tracker + PAHUD, followed by PokerOffice. Neither of which cost more than $100. While I have no trouble believing it may be superior to either, the question is whether its superiority would justify this, and convince new prospective buyer to pay 10 times the amount.

The second even harder issue would be trying to win over satisfied users of PT and PO, and charge a premium price too. Right now I am a satisfied user of PO. I've had a few issues here and there over the last 2 years of use, but nothing insurmountable, and overall, I've gotten a LOT from it. I might convert if convinced, but I don't see that happening for 500 bucks. Remember that most players don't have $500 to spend on a program.

Albert

Re: New Software: Holdem Manager
 

[ QUOTE ]
100$ is ridiculously underpriced. You should be selling this for $500 MINIMUM and imo more in the 1k-2k range.


[/ QUOTE ]

lol what? I think $100 is slightly steep IMO in terms of what I'm willing to pay, seeing as it's between 10-20% of my bankroll, but if the early reviews are good I'll make the switch. I'd have been more comfortable with $80.

question for rvg, seeing as this uses postSQRL, will I have to convert my file format from FAT to NTFS before I use this program? Is this risky at all?

Re: New Software: Holdem Manager
 

Dunno if this is mentioned but...

You should really ad "Player moves" on the HUD (like PO does). You know... little leatters that indicate what was the player's move on each street... like:

CC/C/XR/B

being call-call/call/check-raise/bet

Re: New Software: Holdem Manager
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
100$ is ridiculously underpriced. You should be selling this for $500 MINIMUM and imo more in the 1k-2k range.


[/ QUOTE ]

lol what? I think $100 is slightly steep IMO in terms of what I'm willing to pay, seeing as it's between 10-20% of my bankroll, but if the early reviews are good I'll make the switch. I'd have been more comfortable with $80.

question for rvg, seeing as this uses postSQRL, will I have to convert my file format from FAT to NTFS before I use this program? Is this risky at all?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi,

You should probably run the Postgres DB on an NTFS partition although according to their documentation there is a work around to run it on a FAT drive but it's not recommended.

If there are any PostgreSQL experts here maybe they could jump in and correct me if I'm wrong.

I also don't think the $100 ($65 for manager, $35 for HUD) is "ridiculously underpriced". Albert pretty much sums up why.

Thanks,

rvg

Re: New Software: Holdem Manager
 

How is crypto support looking?

Re: New Software: Holdem Manager
 

[ QUOTE ]
How is crypto support looking?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi,

I've received hand histories from crypto and a lot of other sites but haven't worked on them yet. I need to finish off a bunch of things in the app that need to be done for the beta launch before I can start adding in new sites. Once I'm happy with the final release candidate and it's in the hands of the private beta guys then I'll focus on adding new sites and try to get at least a couple more in for the beta launch.

Thanks,

rvg

Re: New Software: Holdem Manager
 

Sorry if you already covered this, but will I be able to filter the HUD stats for blind level as well as number of people left?

Re: New Software: Holdem Manager
 

this is probly not much useful for strong player, but weak player like me, it would be alot helpful.
on the Hud Stats, excluding all other player but me. if it's possible to add a pot odds + EV stats?
so, when i review my note, it's easier to find where my mistake are. plus, i will know if i am making the correct decision on #.##% of time.

Re: New Software: Holdem Manager
 

RVG,

How is prima support coming?

Re: New Software: Holdem Manager
 

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry if you already covered this, but will I be able to filter the HUD stats for blind level as well as number of people left?

[/ QUOTE ]
yes - actually, by stack relative to the size of the BB, which is more valuable.

Re: New Software: Holdem Manager
 

rvg this sounds very cool

I would just like to throw in my 2 cents. One of the biggest upgrades I am hoping for in this in regards to PokerTracker would be a much better hand replayer. I noticed you mentioned stats for players would be overlayed. It would be ideal if you could capture exactly the same stats as we have in our personalized huds so that we can figure out why we were making the decisions we were. Also the pause feature on my pokertracker hand replayer lags like crazy which is quite annoying.

Lastly, do you think that PokerManager would be able to handle a db with say 100million hands in it? If so, do you have any ideas on how big in terms of gigabites a database that size might be? I am just trying to be extreme to ensure I would never have to worry about db size.

Also, what are the chances that this will work with sixth sense in the future?

Thanks

Re: New Software: Holdem Manager
 

One more question, do you think it is possible to take my dbs from PT to you HM? Would be very nice [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: New Software: Holdem Manager
 

Will HM have a backup/restore feature like PT?

If I want to send a friend hand histories will I be able to back convert from the XML to standard FTP/PS format that his PT can read?

Re: New Software: Holdem Manager
 

Hi

Whats about Ongame support? Ongame didnt writes .txt files, but have its own Database file (SQL).

Re: New Software: Holdem Manager
 

Here are some answers:

1) I probably won't be including any pot odd / ev stats in the HUD. If the sites don't have a problem with this then I might add it in the future. Showing current hand action from previous streets will be something I add to the HUD providing the site provides me this info somehow.

2) The Replayer will have the ability to show you the HUD stats at the time of the hand however this might take some time to implement. Initially it will be overall stats for all players at the time of the replay not the time of the hand.

3) 100 million hands!!! Well, I don't see why not although some things will run slower than others. I've had it up to 10 million hands and after a vacuum analyze it ran really well on my 2ghz machine. As hardware gets faster the performance will scale out nicely. 100 million hands will be somewhere around 400GB's.

4) SpadeEye has already said they will support it. I'm sure that if people like the product then Sixth Sense will at least consider adding support. I'll be glad to help any plugin authors integrate into HM and they should find it pretty easy to get what they need.

5) You can export your PT hand histories and import them into HM. You can't do this if you do not store hand histories in your PT Database because too much data / info would be missing for HM.

6) PostgreSQL has backup / restore so automatically HM can do this. You can't necesarilly import the XML hand histories back into the standard hand history format but I store the original hand history as well as the XML format so saving the originals back to disk is no problem.

7) Interesting that OnGame has its own database... I can probably support it without too much hassle.

rvg

Re: New Software: Holdem Manager
 

I own both PT & PO, and have to say it looks great. Will you support absolute poker? I can provide plenty of hand histories if you need them!