Re: How to build credit
 

Is this thread ever gonna die??

FWIW, I work in the credit industry as a career. I agree, somewhat, with Henry & Thremp on this. There's too much risk for too little gain. If you are 21 years old who lives in your parent's basement & all you do is sit around on the computer all day playing cards & "apporama-ing"...then I guess you have time for all of this. But the rest of us have jobs, families, & a life of some sort...so it's not feasible for us to try this.

If you can make a little cash off this, then go for it. But beware! You miss a deadline, a payment, a transfer, etc & as I stated earlier...it'll come down around you like a house of cards. The temptation of so much easy credit & free money for the taking is too great for the average joe consumer to resist spending himself into a hole he will never dig out of. I see it all the time. IMO, this is a very bad idea.

It almost reminds me of a ponzi scheme.

Re: How to build credit
 

I haven't read the whole thread, but there is a forum dedicated to building credit. http://www.creditboards.com/forums/ They have some really good info for free. I used ideas over there to help fix my credit.

Re: How to build credit
 

[ QUOTE ]

You can double your yearly income if you pick up 10 dimes a minute. Why don't you go do that? Why are you posting on a forum? You certainly aren't making any money by posting on 2p2 and picking up 10 dimes a minute would have more utility.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think you understand my position. My point is that once you hit a certain income level you should avoid doing embarrassing stuff for money. Picking up change would certainly fall into the categories of acts I find embarrassing.

My issue with this was that I assumed someone could at most qualify for 120-150% of their yearly income in credit. Based on some of the posts it seems that this assumption is not true. If someone making $60k can get himself $200k in credit and wants to do this then by all means go ahead and do it. I just find it hard to believe that someone who makes that could qualify for that much credit. My assumption was that we were talking about someone who was making $150k+. I thought I made this clear before but obviously I didn't.

[ QUOTE ]
STFU with your $16/day spiel. That would be a great line to use if doing an app-o-rama took 12-24hours/day to complete. It only takes 2 hours max a month and even less time as months go by. Not to mention, cutting $16/day would have a much bigger negative impact than just "working" for 8 hours to make $12,000 and carrying that non-existent stigma.

[/ QUOTE ]

Again since my assumption was that we are talking about someone who was making a lot of money cutting $16/day is actually not hard.

Also just stating that there is no stigma doesn't actually make it so. That this thread exists actually proves that a stigma does exist. People are getting angry and resorting to ad hominem attacks because they feel like I am judging them. If there was nothing to be embarrassed about no one would be getting upset.

Also it can't be a coincidence that of the four people I discussed this with all felt pretty much the same as I do.

Re: How to build credit
 

They are attacking you because you are a troll. I've never done an app-o-rama and don't have any plans to do one soon, so I'm certainly not attacking you because I'm embarrassed. Also, all your assumptions are basically "everyone in the world is just like me." Get over yourself.

Basically all you have done is come in here, claim that because X does or does not happen, and because of that your claims are correct. Again, not disclosing information/attacking you != embarrassed. Here, I'll play your game: The next post you make will prove that you are an idiot!~

Re: How to build credit
 

[ QUOTE ]
They are attacking you because you are a troll. I've never done an app-o-rama and don't have any plans to do one soon, so I'm certainly not attacking you because I'm embarrassed.

[/ QUOTE ]

The obvious question is why not? If it is such a good move why have you chosen to not take part?

The rest of your post doesn't really make sense. You need to calm down before responding. It will make it easier to follow that way.

Re: How to build credit
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
They are attacking you because you are a troll. I've never done an app-o-rama and don't have any plans to do one soon, so I'm certainly not attacking you because I'm embarrassed.

[/ QUOTE ]
The obvious question is why not? If it is such a good move why have you chosen to not take part?


[/ QUOTE ]

Did you even read this thread? I stated that I'm lazy and the risk isn't worth the reward IN MY CASE, since there's a decent chance I miss a payment. In the future I will reconsider. However, unlike you, I can see how it's a great way to earn free money for others.

Re: How to build credit
 

Henry,

I'm curious about some hypothetical situations and how you would deal.

You open up your wallet and X falls out. How large does X have to be before you bother to bend over and pick it up?

I will pay you X to dress up in a clown suit for ten minutes and parade up and down your street. How much does X have to be for you to accept?

I will deduct X from your daily spending. How large does X have to be before it impacts your daily QOL?

Re: How to build credit
 

[ QUOTE ]
1) I probably would wear a clown suit for $10k, because who cares what other people think? Oh wait, you do. Immensely, apparently. I'd laugh it off and think "why is this idiot paying me $10k to wear a clown suit? oh well, i'll ponder it while im on a month long vacation with my girlfriend or investing it/paying off school debt. Nice that you and your friends go around judging each other for making money. And all this from someone who plays poker for a living? You spend your days grinding away, winning money off poor fools that don't know any better, probably lots of people with gambling problems blowing the rent check on poker. Interesing how that is fine, but working within the framework established by credit card companies to make a profit is sketchy and comparative to wearing a clown suit?

2)This isn't wearing a clown suit. It is filling out a couple forms and making some calls. Something that could be done while playing poker.

3)You keep talking about $16/day as if this is some full time occupation that involves daily work for slave wages. There is some work on the front end, but the profit comes from investing the money as you would any other funds you already have, so there is no additional work there.

4) If you don't care about $16/day, would you please ship that amount to me daily? If I had $6k to invest right now, I'd have over $100k at retirement. Sounds like a decent deal for me.

Why am I even bothering to argue with you when it is clear that you are an insecure elitist snob?

[/ QUOTE ]

I got all tingly and happy when I saw this. GG.

Re: How to build credit
 

Yawn. Poor people want to scam credit card companies. I hope they donate money to charity or something else equally idiotic at the same time.

As an aside. I have some legit questions to help understand this better.

1) What exactly happens if you try that overpay thing and they don't like it? I think Meteron (?) mentioned his CC didn't like him overpaying. Do they just not accept it? Refuse it? Is all that happens they're just like "You can't do that" or does the 2nd company find out that you're scamming them?
2) Can someone explain to me more how your credit score and income are related to put together the amount of CCs you can get?

Re: How to build credit
 

XXXNoahXXX,

I don't see why I should answer your hypothetical situations. #1 is easy but #2 everyone will just disagree with me on. #3 I can't answer without sounding braggadocios and also because quality of life is a very subjective criteria. So I'm going to pass.

Re: How to build credit
 

[ QUOTE ]
2) Can someone explain to me more how your credit score and income are related to put together the amount of CCs you can get?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm curious about this as well. I have never had legitimate credit so I'm having issues with the claims that individuals can get 4 and 5 times their income in credit.

My general view of society is that they are irresponsible. If it was this easy to get credit I'd expect a lot of people to be living temporary baller lifestyles on credit.

Re: How to build credit
 

[ QUOTE ]
XXXNoahXXX,

I don't see why I should answer your hypothetical situations. #1 is easy but #2 everyone will just disagree with me on. #3 I can't answer without sounding braggadocios and also because quality of life is a very subjective criteria. So I'm going to pass.

[/ QUOTE ]


Henry, but you said

[ QUOTE ]
Well if you feel it should be kept secret that implies there is something shameful. I don't believe in doing something that if it became public I'd be embarrassed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Crazy how you chose to not answer my questions related to your finances. The way you made it sound, you and your friends exchange tax return forms every time you meet. Now how hard was that?

Re: How to build credit
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yawn. Poor people want to scam credit card companies. I hope they donate money to charity or something else equally idiotic

[/ QUOTE ]

Thremp,

Now I know you're an idiot.

How does someone who bets on sports take this view. You are willing to scout out sites so that you can get +400 instead of +390 or whatever, but this is below you?

what about bonus whoring and things like that?

Re: How to build credit
 

[ QUOTE ]
Crazy how you chose to not answer my questions related to your finances. The way you made it sound, you and your friends exchange tax return forms every time you meet. Now how hard was that?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't answer questions when I don't know the motivation of the person asking them.

Re: How to build credit
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
2) Can someone explain to me more how your credit score and income are related to put together the amount of CCs you can get?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm curious about this as well. I have never had legitimate credit so I'm having issues with the claims that individuals can get 4 and 5 times their income in credit.

My general view of society is that they are irresponsible. If it was this easy to get credit I'd expect a lot of people to be living temporary baller lifestyles on credit.

[/ QUOTE ]

My friend who got started investing using CC credit got about $200k of available credit. I'm not sure what he was making at the time, but he was a foreclosure door knocker for a mortgage company, so it couldn't have been that much.

He had been a loan officer b/f that and had access to some people at several different banks to consult about the best ways to secure high credit lines with a relatively low income.

My understanding is that he applied for many cards all at once. He then more or less maxed out each card by taking advantage of 0% balance transfers. He put the money into an account and made payments for 3 months. On the fourth month he paid all cards off. The then called the companies and asked for a line increase, and repeated.

Apparently the banks want to see that you can handle the debt load more so than they care about your actual income. If you prove you can handle $10k, they'll take a chance on giving you $15k. Over time he built up enough credit at low enough interest rates that he was able to utilize the credit for investment purposes.

I dunno. It worked for him. I don't see it as any different than taking out any other type of loan for a leveraged investment.

Re: How to build credit
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yawn. Poor people want to scam credit card companies. I hope they donate money to charity or something else equally idiotic at the same time.

As an aside. I have some legit questions to help understand this better.

1) What exactly happens if you try that overpay thing and they don't like it? I think Meteron (?) mentioned his CC didn't like him overpaying. Do they just not accept it? Refuse it? Is all that happens they're just like "You can't do that" or does the 2nd company find out that you're scamming them?
2) Can someone explain to me more how your credit score and income are related to put together the amount of CCs you can get?

[/ QUOTE ]

More middle-class and wealthy people do app-o-ramas than poor people. That should be really obvious. Also, you must hold a weird definition of scam. The credit card company is GIVING you 0% on all balance transfers. Do you understand that they are a business? They make money by offering [censored] like that and know 99% of people don't even know what an app-o-rama is or will fail at it. If the credit card companies were being hurt, they would stop handing out 0% or create more conditions. What don't you understand about that?

1) Not sure where overpaying would come in play. You want to pay off the minimum each month, not the maximum. You are doing it wrong if you overpay.

2) Amount of CCs isn't really important, it's the credit line on each CC. It's much harder to get 200k in credit than 20 credit cards. Your credit score and income affect the credit lines you get. It also depends on how long you've had the card. Some cards let you increase your credit line automatically after 1-6 months. So if they see that you paid everything on time and have a low debt-to-credit ratio, they will increase your credit lines.

Re: How to build credit
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
2) Can someone explain to me more how your credit score and income are related to put together the amount of CCs you can get?

[/ QUOTE ]

My general view of society is that they are irresponsible. If it was this easy to get credit I'd expect a lot of people to be living temporary baller lifestyles on credit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your view is correct, thus they are usually in debt and don't have good enough credit to live temporary baller lifestyles.

Re: How to build credit
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see it as any different than taking out any other type of loan for a leveraged investment.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's really not. The credit card companies are offering you a rate just like a bank would. Both the CC companies and banks are running to make a profit and have carefully thought EVERYTHING through.

Tell me Henry, have you ever refused to purchase a car/house/condo/anything because you wanted to pay more money for the same thing?

Thremp, do you refuse to bet on the best lines?

Re: How to build credit
 

Ok but at some point you have 20 cards with I assume 50% utilization so that you can still maintain a decent debt to credit ratio. Now the introductory period ends. You need to find new credit cards to transfer all of this to but you already have 20 credit cards. How long can someone keep this up?

How can someone really not be embarrassed about having 40+ credit cards?

Re: How to build credit
 

[ QUOTE ]
Tell me Henry, have you ever refused to purchase a car/house/condo/anything because you wanted to pay more money for the same thing?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. Many times. I'll pay a premium to be 100% certain that the item I'm buying is neither hot nor a knock-off. I will also pay a premium for better service. I'll pay a premium to not have to deal with other people. I also will not use a coupon under any circumstances.

I see this as similar to going to a chain restaurant where they give you free stuff on your birthday. If you are in university and do this fine. If you are well off and do this then that is pathetic.

Re: How to build credit
 

Noah,

I was being sarcastic. I don't really feel any ethical qualms about it. If you feel you need the money to improve your life and can live with the relatively minor ethics of it, thats fine. I find the whole thing dubious and not really worth my time to deal with.

And yes, I do line shop and bonus whore. Kids gotta eat.

blue,

Is there any rule of thumb for that? Like if you pay them off each month and make 60k a year... Are you looking at being able to eventually borrow 400k+ on CC?

Re: How to build credit
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Tell me Henry, have you ever refused to purchase a car/house/condo/anything because you wanted to pay more money for the same thing?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. Many times. I'll pay a premium to be 100% certain that the item I'm buying is neither hot nor a knock-off. I will also pay a premium for better service. I'll pay a premium to not have to deal with other people. I also will not use a coupon under any circumstances.

I see this as similar to going to a chain restaurant where they give you free stuff on your birthday. If you are in university and do this fine. If you are well off and do this then that is pathetic.

[/ QUOTE ]

I said for the SAME THING. You are sure the product is the exact same. Process would be the same as well.

Re: How to build credit
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ok but at some point you have 20 cards with I assume 50% utilization so that you can still maintain a decent debt to credit ratio. Now the introductory period ends. You need to find new credit cards to transfer all of this to but you already have 20 credit cards. How long can someone keep this up?

How can someone really not be embarrassed about having 40+ credit cards?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you are confused, you don't have to continue anything. You can stop once the introductory period ends.. just withdraw all your invested money and pay off the credit cards. You keep the 5-6% interest.

Someone isn't embarrassed by having 40 credit cards because no one is forcing you to walk outside with a 7" thick wallet. I have about 6-7 credit cards and only use one, the rest are stored away. The one I do use gets 5% off most purchases, it's much more convenient and smart to use a credit card over cash.

For some reason you believe everything you do is public knowledge and that other people's opinions matter. You are insane.

Re: How to build credit
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think you are confused, you don't have to continue anything. You can stop once the introductory period ends.. just withdraw all your invested money and pay off the credit cards. You keep the 5-6% interest.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought the point of this was to continue to do it in perpetuity or until you couldn't get any more credit.

If someone is doing it for only one cycle, the 5-6% return for an introductory period of 6 months is even less money. I'm going to have all these credit cards on my credit report to make chump change. I thought people could keep this ponzi-lite going for 2-3 years.

[ QUOTE ]
or some reason you believe everything you do is public knowledge and that other people's opinions matter. You are insane

[/ QUOTE ]

You'd be surprised how easy it is for information to get out.

Other people's opinion do matter. I've walked away from dealing with people because they wore a fake Rolex, because they tried to sneak into a club without paying cover, because they did something similar to this. Your personal reputation is the equivalent of goodwill. Risking the possibility that your reputation might be damaged to get a interest free loan for 6 months is insane.

Re: How to build credit
 

Henry,

What would your neighbors think if they knew that instead of hiring a computer technician you asked for assistance in the tech forum of a free poker website! Instead of going to a nutritionist or other specialist you bring your supplement queries to health and fitness!

If I were you, I'd get an admin to nuke those threads before a neighbor stumbles across them and realizes how cheap and lazy you are!

Re: How to build credit
 

lol .. you know you have struck a nerve with someone when they feel the need to research you. Why don't you get an admin to give you my name then you can google me.

For a very reasonable fee you can even have me followed. It is remarkably affordable.

Re: How to build credit
 

[ QUOTE ]
lol .. you know you have struck a nerve with someone when they feel the need to research you. Why don't you get an admin to give you my name then you can google me.

For a very reasonable fee you can even have me followed. It is remarkably affordable.

[/ QUOTE ]

I did it for him. Honestly thought you were a bit older. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Henry17

Jimbo

Re: How to build credit
 

[ QUOTE ]

I thought the point of this was to continue to do it in perpetuity or until you couldn't get any more credit.

If someone is doing it for only one cycle, the 5-6% return for an introductory period of 6 months is even less money. I'm going to have all these credit cards on my credit report to make chump change. I thought people could keep this ponzi-lite going for 2-3 years.

[/ QUOTE ]

No one is forcing you to do it until for eternity. When you decide to stop, or can't continue, then you cash out your investment and pay off the cards. All those credit cards on your credit report can be a GOOD thing. You continue to display your ignorance of credit.

[ QUOTE ]

You'd be surprised how easy it is for information to get out.

Other people's opinion do matter. I've walked away from dealing with people because they wore a fake Rolex, because they tried to sneak into a club without paying cover, because they did something similar to this. Your personal reputation is the equivalent of goodwill. Risking the possibility that your reputation might be damaged to get a interest free loan for 6 months is insane.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sneaking into a club to avoid cover is nowhere close to being smart and resourceful with credit. You couldn't come up with any more of a polar opposite analogy.

Sneaking into a club = illegal, unethical, and an indicator of bad character.
Knowing how credit works = legal, ethical, and an indicator of intelligence.

Also, if someone magically gets your credit report and sees what's going on and holds a negative opinion, it's an opinion that shouldn't be valued. This should be blatantly obvious, but apparently you live your life based on how complete idiots think of you.

Re: How to build credit
 

[ QUOTE ]
lol .. you know you have struck a nerve with someone when they feel the need to research you. Why don't you get an admin to give you my name then you can google me.

For a very reasonable fee you can even have me followed. It is remarkably affordable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would you register to a gambling forum with your real name? You sure are an idiot for being so paranoid and then failing to protect your identity.

Re: How to build credit
 

blue,

Maybe I'm misunderstanding. But to take advantage of this you are creating a fake balance transfer, no? Like you don't have any balance to xfer, you say you do, they mail you a check, continue onward.

Maybe I'm mistaken. Clarification?

Re: How to build credit
 

[ QUOTE ]
Also, if someone magically gets your credit report and sees what's going on and holds a negative opinion, it's an opinion that shouldn't be valued. This should be blatantly obvious, but apparently you live your life based on how complete idiots think of you.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem is that I agree with the way they think. I also would judge someone. So I guess I'm a complete idiot as well.

Given the relative financial position between the complete idiots and the people who think this is a good idea I think I am happier as a complete idiot. I rather be well judged by people with money than by people who are willing to get involved in a scheme like this for a few thousand dollars.

Re: How to build credit
 

[ QUOTE ]
blue,

Maybe I'm misunderstanding. But to take advantage of this you are creating a fake balance transfer, no? Like you don't have any balance to xfer, you say you do, they mail you a check, continue onward.

Maybe I'm mistaken. Clarification?

[/ QUOTE ]

Card A you take out the money as a cash advance. You now have cash in hand and a balance owing that you are paying interest on.

You transfer the entire balance owing from Card A to Card B and take advantage of the introductory offer of 0% interest.

You take the cash and put it in the bank to earn your 5%.

When the introductory offer on Card B ends you either just pay it back or get a new card and repeat the process.

Re: How to build credit
 

if ur above 700 ur fine

Re: How to build credit
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Also, if someone magically gets your credit report and sees what's going on and holds a negative opinion, it's an opinion that shouldn't be valued. This should be blatantly obvious, but apparently you live your life based on how complete idiots think of you.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem is that I agree with the way they think. I also would judge someone. So I guess I'm a complete idiot as well.

Given the relative financial position between the complete idiots and the people who think this is a good idea I think I am happier as a complete idiot. I rather be well judged by people with money than by people who are willing to get involved in a scheme like this for a few thousand dollars.

[/ QUOTE ]

A random stranger that knows nothing about, say paintings, and you happen to own a painting worth $1m... he says your painting blows and would be worth less than $200, are you going to cry at night? Is that going to cost you $999,800? No. The problem with all of your retarded scenarios is that somehow, some random gets your credit report. His opinion means NOTHING.

The only people that DO get your credit score will be those qualified to understand it. They will see the entire history, your score, etc. Your credit doesn't suddenly become equal to someone who just filed bankruptcy. You will still have good credit if you started with excellent credit. Also, as noted before, DON'T DO AN APP-O-RAMA IF YOUR CREDIT IS NEEDED AND WILL AFFECT SOMETHING. So your whole point is moot. I also don't think you understand that your credit will be the same or better after you complete an AOR and others will not be able to see that you did one.

Free 6-20k with no trace of "scum" > Paranoia.

You are a very successful troll btw.

Re: How to build credit
 

Get it through your thick skull that good credit doesn't rely on how many credit cards you have. Why don't you learn a subject before arguing out of your ass?

Business people care about your entire credit in general and you know nothing about credit. Not to mention, you don't do an app-o-rama if a credit score fluctuation will cost >10k. If you don't understand this you are a complete buffoon.

Re: How to build credit
 

I don't think you are understanding my point. It isn't about credit score. I don't care about my score since I have never bought anything on credit and I never will.

I don't see why it is so hard to understand that a few thousand dollars is not worth risking the possibility of having people look down on me.

I do believe that everyone is connected by X degrees of separation and I do believe that people talk and gossip a lot.

Even if no one ever found out I would still know and I'd feel pathetic for doing it. No amount of money is worth that.

Re: How to build credit
 

[ QUOTE ]
Get it through your thick skull that good credit doesn't rely on how many credit cards you have. Why don't you learn a subject before arguing out of your ass?

Business people care about your entire credit in general and you know nothing about credit. Not to mention, you don't do an app-o-rama if a credit score fluctuation will cost >10k. If you don't understand this you are a complete buffoon.

[/ QUOTE ]

Having too many credit cards will hurt your FICO score. The threshold is pretty high though and this is a very small part of the score. On the other hand, thanks to the consumer credit crisis at present, we may very well be headed back to relying less on FICO and more on human judgment in credit analysis - having flipped a lot of credit cards can't look too good. Of course this depends on how far you take this - no one will care about 7-8 credit cards, for instance.

Re: How to build credit
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
blue,

Maybe I'm misunderstanding. But to take advantage of this you are creating a fake balance transfer, no? Like you don't have any balance to xfer, you say you do, they mail you a check, continue onward.

Maybe I'm mistaken. Clarification?

[/ QUOTE ]

Card A you take out the money as a cash advance. You now have cash in hand and a balance owing that you are paying interest on.

You transfer the entire balance owing from Card A to Card B and take advantage of the introductory offer of 0% interest.

You take the cash and put it in the bank to earn your 5%.

When the introductory offer on Card B ends you either just pay it back or get a new card and repeat the process.

[/ QUOTE ]

But aren't cash advances just a fraction of full credit limits?

For example mine is ~20%. Is this normal for these cards? Am I getting junky CCs? To make 6k a year on this plan seems like you need to pull down 500k of credit.

Re: How to build credit
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Get it through your thick skull that good credit doesn't rely on how many credit cards you have. Why don't you learn a subject before arguing out of your ass?

Business people care about your entire credit in general and you know nothing about credit. Not to mention, you don't do an app-o-rama if a credit score fluctuation will cost >10k. If you don't understand this you are a complete buffoon.

[/ QUOTE ]

Having too many credit cards will hurt your FICO score. The threshold is pretty high though and this is a very small part of the score. On the other hand, thanks to the consumer credit crisis at present, we may very well be headed back to relying less on FICO and more on human judgment in credit analysis - having flipped a lot of credit cards can't look too good. Of course this depends on how far you take this - no one will care about 7-8 credit cards, for instance.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, but you are wrong. You can find out how a FICO score is calculated on your own.

Re: How to build credit
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think you are understanding my point. It isn't about credit score. I don't care about my score since I have never bought anything on credit and I never will.

I don't see why it is so hard to understand that a few thousand dollars is not worth risking the possibility of having people look down on me.

I do believe that everyone is connected by X degrees of separation and I do believe that people talk and gossip a lot.

Even if no one ever found out I would still know and I'd feel pathetic for doing it. No amount of money is worth that.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol, you are an idiot.