Re: Brian Griese to start next week
 

John Henry was a steel drivin' man.

Re: Brian Griese to start next week
 

I never said anything about Mike Shanahan or Terrell Davis, though.

There is a clear split in Elway's stats - 83-92 and 92-98.

Re: Brian Griese to start next week
 

This was inevitable but whatever - I don't think the Bears are any better than the Vikings right now.

Re: Brian Griese to start next week
 

[ QUOTE ]
Even when Elway didn't always play the best, there was no better QB to have needing a game-winning drive late.

He could be having a horrible game. But get down to 3 minutes left, down by 6 - and it was like he would just wake up out of a fog and start flinging the ball all over the field with laser accuracy. You could see him perk up in his body language. Some QBs get scared in those spots, Elway got jacked-up. It almost seemed like he needed to create a challenge for himself. Like just playing against an NFL defense wasn't stimulating his juices enough. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Question: Who has the most failed 4th quarter comebacks? Honest question, I don't KNOW that its Elway but it wouldn't surprise me at all.

Re: Brian Griese to start next week
 

[ QUOTE ]
I never said anything about Mike Shanahan or Terrell Davis, though.

There is a clear split in Elway's stats - 83-92 and 92-98.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right - under Dan Reeves, and not under Dan Reeves. What's your point?

Re: Brian Griese to start next week
 

I read Shanahan taught Elway to tuck in his teeth before he threw the ball. Yeah, here are some real tiny photos of Elway in action:

Elway at Stanford v UCLA: [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
Elway v Green Bay in Super Bowl: [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Re: Brian Griese to start next week
 

[ QUOTE ]
Question: Who has the most failed 4th quarter comebacks? Honest question, I don't KNOW that its Elway but it wouldn't surprise me at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Based on what?? All the Broncos games you've watched??

I did a quick google search and ran across this article which actually tries to look at successful vs failed 4th quarter comebacks, defining them as any game where a team trailed by 8 points or less and had the ball, at some point in the 4th quarter. Thing is, their numbers only go back to 1996. So they missed most of Elway's career. But a couple quotes from the article:

"Tom Brady is next on the list and, remember, these numbers do include the postseason. Brady is one of only a handful of quarterbacks with a winning record in more than three games with a fourth-quarter deficit. The others are Marc Bulger (10-5), Ben Roethlisberger (7-2), Steve Young (7-4) and John Elway (7-6). Bulger, who ranks eighth by this metric, is the only one in that group that has yet to win a Super Bowl.

(Elway holds the NFL record for fourth-quarter comebacks with 47, but this study only includes the final three years of his career.)"

and

"Full Results
162 quarterbacks have had at least one fourth-quarter comeback opportunity since 1996. There are 24 instances in which two quarterbacks saw action in a failed comeback game, usually due to injury or ineffectiveness of the primary quarterback.

Based on t-tests, 21 quarterbacks have been significantly “good” at fourth-quarter comebacks since 1996 and 18 quarterbacks have been significantly “not good” by the same test (all at the .95 level). The top 10 and bottom 10 are listed above in Table 1 and Table 2. Here are the others:

Significantly good: Aaron Brooks, Tim Couch, Trent Green, Kent Graham, Steve Young, Ben Roethlisberger, John Elway, Kordell Stewart, Daunte Culpepper, Elvis Grbac, Rich Gannon.

Re: Brian Griese to start next week
 

I know this thread is offtopic right now, but I was looking at DPAR so far this year and the difference between Rex Grossman and Jay Cutler is about the same as the difference between Jay Cutler and Tom Brady.

Re: Brian Griese to start next week
 

I don't think Brady has ever come from behind in the postseason.

Harbaugh used to have the nickname "Captain Comeback" so that's weird.

Edit: Brady 1 time with the *

Re: Brian Griese to start next week
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Question: Who has the most failed 4th quarter comebacks? Honest question, I don't KNOW that its Elway but it wouldn't surprise me at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Based on what?? All the Broncos games you've watched??

I did a quick google search and ran across this article which actually tries to look at successful vs failed 4th quarter comebacks, defining them as any game where a team trailed by 8 points or less and had the ball, at some point in the 4th quarter. Thing is, their numbers only go back to 1996. So they missed most of Elway's career. But a couple quotes from the article:

"Tom Brady is next on the list and, remember, these numbers do include the postseason. Brady is one of only a handful of quarterbacks with a winning record in more than three games with a fourth-quarter deficit. The others are Marc Bulger (10-5), Ben Roethlisberger (7-2), Steve Young (7-4) and John Elway (7-6). Bulger, who ranks eighth by this metric, is the only one in that group that has yet to win a Super Bowl.

(Elway holds the NFL record for fourth-quarter comebacks with 47, but this study only includes the final three years of his career.)"

and

"Full Results
162 quarterbacks have had at least one fourth-quarter comeback opportunity since 1996. There are 24 instances in which two quarterbacks saw action in a failed comeback game, usually due to injury or ineffectiveness of the primary quarterback.

Based on t-tests, 21 quarterbacks have been significantly “good” at fourth-quarter comebacks since 1996 and 18 quarterbacks have been significantly “not good” by the same test (all at the .95 level). The top 10 and bottom 10 are listed above in Table 1 and Table 2. Here are the others:

Significantly good: Aaron Brooks, Tim Couch, Trent Green, Kent Graham, Steve Young, Ben Roethlisberger, John Elway, Kordell Stewart, Daunte Culpepper, Elvis Grbac, Rich Gannon.

Significantly bad: Neil O’Donnell, Doug Flutie, Frank Reich (yes, the same Frank Reich who led the greatest postseason comeback in NFL history in 1992, prior to this study), Gus Frerotte, David Carr, Jim Harbaugh, Matt Hasselbeck, Billy Joe Tolliver. "

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope, not based on that at all. I just said it wouldn't surprise me btw, not sure why you are on high alert (3 ?'s? Really?) The thing that leads me to believe he might have the most failed 4th quarter comebacks is...wait for it...the fact that he has the most successful 4th quarter comebacks. Since I don't really believe in clutch (or at least, I feel it is ridiculously exaggerated and probably does exist but is a minor impact) it seems reasonable to believe that the guy who has the most 4th quarter comebacks was the guy who was down in the 4th quarter the most often. This would mean he has a good chance of having the most failed comebacks too. Sort of like Cy Young, know what I mean?

It is really funny (and awesome) to me that Daunte Culpepper is on the significalty good list. I'm a ridiculously huge DC fan (like super biased and its sort of embarrassing) and one of the biggest knocks on him in MN was that he couldn't lead comebacks and he crumbled under pressure. I thought that was ridiculous and didn't match up with anything I saw watching him, but hey, what do I know?

I'd be interested to see the methodology here, maybe I'll try to look into it.

EDIT: From your article [ QUOTE ]
Over the past decade, no quarterback has had more fourth-quarter comebacks than Drew Bledsoe. Then again, no quarterback has had more fourth-quarter comeback opportunities than Bledsoe.

[/ QUOTE ]
Stuff like that.

Re: Brian Griese to start next week
 

Ah, sort of as I figured, this thing doesn't really get at what we mean when we say he is great at 4th quarter comebacks. I mean, Tom Brady is great at 4th quarter comebacks in part because he is just freaking great. The "signficance t-test" doesn't take into consideration the overall winning percentage of these QBs. So it isn't really saying necessarily do anything special in the 4th quarter, simply that they are awesome and were on great teams and so were more likely to come back. Its sort of like how Big Papi leads the league in 9th inning HR or RBI or something because, hey, he hits a [censored] of HR and RBI!

Re: Brian Griese to start next week
 

[ QUOTE ]
btw, not sure why you are on high alert (3 ?'s? Really?)

[/ QUOTE ]

Brother, if you'd have seen all the Broncos games that I have, you'd know!

Re: Brian Griese to start next week
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
btw, not sure why you are on high alert (3 ?'s? Really?)

[/ QUOTE ]

Brother, if you'd have seen all the Broncos games that I have, you'd know!

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Let me ease your mind. I like John Elway a lot.

Re: Brian Griese to start next week
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
btw, not sure why you are on high alert (3 ?'s? Really?)

[/ QUOTE ]

Brother, if you'd have seen all the Broncos games that I have, you'd know!

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Let me ease your mind. I like John Elway a lot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whats the difference between Bugs Bunny and john elway?

One has buck teeth and big ears, and the other is a cartoon character.

[censored] YOU JOHN ELWAY-
sincerely
Cleveland, OH

Re: Brian Griese to start next week
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
btw, not sure why you are on high alert (3 ?'s? Really?)

[/ QUOTE ]

Brother, if you'd have seen all the Broncos games that I have, you'd know!

[/ QUOTE ]

I used to see him twice a year in the most painful way possible.

In '89 - Monday night game 4th and 10, beginning of the Shottenheimer era, first time Chiefs were going to win in Mile-High in forever. A minute left, 4th and 10, Broncos on their own 10. Elway rolls right, then throws a 50 yd bomb completely across his body and across the field to Vance Johnson at midfield. Broncs go on to score and win.

In '92 I think, Chiefs up by 10 with ~ 4 min. left at the Broncos 5. Instead of burning time or timeouts Marty goes for the jugular and throws twice. Chiefs settle for field goal, up 13 w/ ~ 3 min. left. Elway scores in about a minute. Dale Carter somehow flubs the kickoff and gets tackled at the 4. Marty runs 3 times. 3 timeouts. Elway gets the ball back with a little under 2 min. I think, breaks my heart.

It took Joe Montana to finally once beat Elway in Denver, then go back to losing 85% of the time.

Re: Brian Griese to start next week
 

Griese >> Manning >>>> Elway >>>>>>>> Grossman > Brady.

That is all.

Go Bears.

Re: Brian Griese to start next week
 

[ QUOTE ]
In '89 - Monday night game 4th and 10, beginning of the Shottenheimer era, first time Chiefs were going to win in Mile-High in forever. A minute left, 4th and 10, Broncos on their own 10. Elway rolls right, then throws a 50 yd bomb completely across his body and across the field to Vance Johnson at midfield. Broncs go on to score and win.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't remember this one, but Schottenheimer really was just cursed against the Broncos.

[ QUOTE ]
In '92 I think, Chiefs up by 10 with ~ 4 min. left at the Broncos 5. Instead of burning time or timeouts Marty goes for the jugular and throws twice. Chiefs settle for field goal, up 13 w/ ~ 3 min. left. Elway scores in about a minute. Dale Carter somehow flubs the kickoff and gets tackled at the 4. Marty runs 3 times. 3 timeouts. Elway gets the ball back with a little under 2 min. I think, breaks my heart.


[/ QUOTE ]

I remember watching the ESPN postgame show waiting for an update on this one. 20-19 final right? I think Vance Johnson caught the game winner in the corner of the end zone.

That Joe Montana one stuck in my craw a little. Elway had actually driven the Broncos to a go ahead touchdown late (I think Elway ran it in himself) and then Montana turned around and won the game with a few seconds left.

I remember as a kid watching what may have been Elway's first big comeback against the Colts. I may have some of this wrong, but I think Denver came from down 19-7 in the 4th quarter and won 21-19, scoring the last touchdown on a 4th down play where Elway dumped it to a RB (Gerald Wilhite? it was the guy who would do a backflip I think).

My personal favorite Broncos game of all time was the 'Drive II' game against Houston in the playoffs where I think Denver was down 21-6 at one point, then got to 24-23 late. Houston had a chance to run out the clock, but ended up dropping a punt at the 1 and a half yard line. Denver had converted a fourth down in the previous drive, and converted two more on this one to drive for the winning field goal.

Re: Brian Griese to start next week
 

put in Orkmin.

Re: Brian Griese to start next week
 

he just threw an int but it doesnt matter hes pwning

Re: Brian Griese to start next week
 

Sweet Red Zone turnover.

Re: Brian Griese to start next week
 

Very nice game Griese.

Re: Brian Griese to start next week
 

[ QUOTE ]
Very nice game Griese.

[/ QUOTE ]

haha.

It's so sad that 2 redzone turnovers and a pick-6 count as a good game for the Bears.

Re: Brian Griese to start next week
 

Eff this, I now hope the Bears go 3-13 or however bad they need to be to draft Woodson/Brohm/someone not named Chad Henne

Re: Brian Griese to start next week
 

bring back sexy rexy!

Re: Brian Griese to start next week
 

[ QUOTE ]
bring back sexy rexy!

[/ QUOTE ]


I would rather have acid thrown in my face

Re: Brian Griese to start next week
 

Chad Henne isn't even starting consistently for the Wolverines lol, so I doubt he'd be be 1st round pick. Who is this Woodson that everyone speaks of? Also, what about that Hawaii QB?

Also, hate to tell you so but Grossman > Griese. All they need to do is unleash Grossman, and he'll be good. You can't be scared while you're playing QB, and that's what the bears Offensive Coordinator is telling him to do, which is making him into 'Bad Rex.' Just unleash him like Tony Romo and you'll get sorta similar results (Romo can feel pass rush almost like Manning, which is a really good, god given skill.)

Re: Brian Griese to start next week
 

[ QUOTE ]
Chad Henne isn't even starting consistently for the Wolverines lol, so I doubt he'd be be 1st round pick. Who is this Woodson that everyone speaks of? Also, what about that Hawaii QB?

Also, hate to tell you so but Grossman > Griese. All they need to do is unleash Grossman, and he'll be good. You can't be scared while you're playing QB, and that's what the bears Offensive Coordinator is telling him to do, which is making him into 'Bad Rex.' Just unleash him like Tony Romo and you'll get sorta similar results (Romo can feel pass rush almost like Manning, which is a really good, god given skill.)

[/ QUOTE ]

what can some of you people not understand about this guy??

HE WAS A MEDIOCRE COLLEGE QB. HE IS ONLY 6' FLAT. HE NEVER DESERVED TO START IN THE FIRST PLACE. HE HAS NEVER DEMONSTRATED AN ABILITY TO BE A GOOD QB APART FROM HIS SUCCESS IN HIGH SCHOOL.

Re: Brian Griese to start next week
 

LOL Griese.

He has no arm. And doesn't make good decisions either. Kyle Orton just wins games. Obv he should start. He's like the white Vince Young.

So they decide to throw it 52 times? LOL. What clown is running this offense? I understand Benson is worthless too but still. Garrett Wolfe + Kyle Orton ftw!

Re: Brian Griese to start next week
 

[ QUOTE ]
LOL Griese.

He has no arm. And doesn't make good decisions either. Kyle Orton just wins games. Obv he should start. He's like the white Vince Young.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sold.

FREE ORTON

Re: Brian Griese to start next week
 

[ QUOTE ]
Chad Henne isn't even starting consistently for the Wolverines lol, so I doubt he'd be be 1st round pick. Who is this Woodson that everyone speaks of? Also, what about that Hawaii QB?

[/ QUOTE ]

Normally I'd rip you a new [censored] for this, but since the Cubs have me in a charitable mood today I'll do your homework for you.

1) Henne has been a 4-year starter at Michigan and only didn't start when injured. He has NFL size and arm strength and is projected to be a high draft pick.

2) Woodson = Kentucky's Andre' Woodson, considered to be the best or second-best NFL QB prospect in college.

3) That Hawaii QB - Colt Brennan. Great guy, if you love product-of-the-system QBs like, I don't know, Grossman?

Grossman will never be a solid NFL starter. He still makes mistakes that I wouldn't expect from some rookies. "Unleashing" Rex will be next to impossible, because if the leash isn't tied airtight around his neck he'd throw about 6 picks a game.

Re: Brian Griese to start next week
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is the Bears funeral. They can't score enough points to make up for a banged up defense with Griese at QB.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Brian Griese to start next week
 

[ QUOTE ]

1) Henne has been a 4-year starter at Michigan and only didn't start when injured. He has NFL size and arm strength and is projected to be a high draft pick.

[/ QUOTE ]

Being a 4 year starter doesn't really prove much imo. I could pull out a ton of names that started all 4 years at their respective colleges and still were pretty big busts at the NFL level or weren't even considered, etc. Arm strength, meh, doesn't really mean much I think. Obv means something, but I hope you get what I mean.

I think he was projected to be a high draft pick if he came out last year. Prolly this week as well, but I might consider betting you he won't go in the first round if you want. I doubt he's gonna be picked in the first round. They said the same about Drew Stanton, and he ended up in what round (I really don't know lol.) Chad Henne is gonna be 2nd round mid pick at best. I just don't believe he has what it takes to be good in the NFL, just my personal opinion and we'll see as time goes on I guess.

I'm sure I'll see Woodson play more esp with Kentucky's ranking and some of the matchups they have coming up.

Hawaii QB's always have beastly stats, but are never considered high. How exactly are they able to put up these sick numbers yet still not be considered atleast decent? Is it just because Hawaii's schedule is usually really easy, and hence they're able to put up these results?

Re: Brian Griese to start next week
 

There was this guy named Tom Brady who had a fairly unimpressive run at michigan (him and henson co-existed if I recall. I can't find the stats). Things turned out ok for him. I think Henne has potential, but he's not a first rounder.

EDIT 20-5 was michigan in games he started, so I guess he did ok. lol.

Re: Brian Griese to start next week
 

Good Rex>Orton>Bad Rex>>Griese.

But next week we shouldn't start any of them. Bears should go 5 Wide Shotgun Spread (2 on one side, 3 one the other) and have Hester as QB. If no one is clearly open, run it.

Re: Brian Griese to start next week
 

[ QUOTE ]
Good Rex>Orton>Bad Rex>>Griese.

But next week we shouldn't start any of them. Bears should go 5 Wide Shotgun Spread (2 on one side, 3 one the other) and have Hester as QB. If no one is clearly open, run it.

[/ QUOTE ]I was thinking of a new offensive philosophy similar to this. Long snap it to Hester every down and put three players back to block for him. Line up the offensive line spread out a little bit. Try to break big rushing plays every down! Much better.

Re: Brian Griese to start next week
 

meet the new boss, same as the old boss

Re: Brian Griese to start next week
 

People are overrating Orton, partly cause both their other options suck and the last guy to win was him lol. But, the only reason he won cause Bears D was healthy during that season, their running offense was actually pretty good. However, if Orton starts now, with their running game sucking as bad as it does now, Orton will be really horrible as all he does is throw dumps and short routes and can't throw the deep ball, and thus would make offense 1 dimensional. Orton is basically the worst option at this point, unless he's somehow vastly improved from that season and can actually throw a ball deep or atleast medium lol.

Re: Brian Griese to start next week
 

Devin Hester at QB...run the wildcat(hog) formation

Re: Brian Griese to start next week
 

[ QUOTE ]
Devin Hester at QB...run the wildcat(hog) formation

[/ QUOTE ]


this was my thought exactly

Re: Brian Griese to start next week
 

[ QUOTE ]
Devin Hester at QB...run the wildcat(hog) formation

[/ QUOTE ]

i would love to see this