Re: Stars Conclusion
 

[ QUOTE ]
Correct, as far as I am aware he/they were given the right to respond to the charge and more than likely had no choice. I was going to respond seriously to the previous post, but in all honesty it's so dumb it's not worth the effort. Also I have a feeling we'll get some more details in due course, Stars know they need to be reasonably transparent on this issue, as they have been in this thread so far...

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a forum of discussion coming out in a fearmode act like saying this post is honestly so dumb just shows your failure as achieving your life as being a loving human being, feel good about someone losing 1.2 million unfairly. like iMsoLucky0 said, if she would had finished 11th it wouldn't had been a problem, my post was made upon serious and previous posting in this forum, and I would like it to be justified in the right way, not in a way from a person who would HATE to see ANYONE win 1.2m, because of his animalistic nature he is a jealous person. As a poker player, and im sure u are, i would like you to try to conclude any kind of hypotethical reason why pokerstars diqualified The V0id, please come up with a couple.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Stars Conclusion
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Correct, as far as I am aware he/they were given the right to respond to the charge and more than likely had no choice. I was going to respond seriously to the previous post, but in all honesty it's so dumb it's not worth the effort. Also I have a feeling we'll get some more details in due course, Stars know they need to be reasonably transparent on this issue, as they have been in this thread so far...

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a forum of discussion coming out in a fearmode act like saying this post is honestly so dumb just shows your failure as achieving your life as being a loving human being, feel good about someone losing 1.2 million unfairly. like iMsoLucky0 said, if she would had finished 11th it wouldn't had been a problem, my post was made upon serious and previous posting in this forum, and I would like it to be justified in the right way, not in a way from a person who would HATE to see ANYONE win 1.2m, because of his animalistic nature he is a jealous person. As a poker player, and im sure u are, i would like you to try to conclude any kind of hypotethical reason why pokerstars diqualified The V0id, please come up with a couple.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]
Because it wasn't her playing the account genius and I'm more than happy for ka$ino to now be winning the money.
You argue that they are innocent but then say if they were 11th they wouldn't be caught, please try posting something logical in future. Yes more than likely some other cheats went under the radar but this one got caught winning the event which is a very good thing for all concerned.

Re: Stars Conclusion
 

Oh and Imsolucky was making the point that they do catch cheaters further down the list, you really are off base on this one.

Re: Stars Conclusion
 

completely agree with shooz... saraya, what makes you think that Stars would take measures like this so frivolously? They stand absolutely nothing to gain, they are obviously not keeping the money. I believe that they acted in the manner that they did because they had more than enough reason to do so... Do you really think a site like theirs would risk their reputation over a minor offense???

Re: Stars Conclusion
 

[ QUOTE ]
Because it wasn't her playing the account genius and I'm more than happy for ka$ino to now be winning the money.
You argue that they are innocent but then say if they were 11th they wouldn't be caught, please try posting something logical in future. Yes more than likely some other cheats went under the radar but this one got caught winning the event which is a very good thing for all concerned.

[/ QUOTE ]

First of all how do you know she wasn't playing ? come up with some evidence before you state something, even pokerstars can't state this ? I was just saying come up with a hypotethical reason for it PLEASE. Second of all going out with theese statements 'genius' so 'dumb' and so on, there's just one sollution A IQ TEST COMBAT, lol.
I will be back later im going on dinner now.

Re: Stars Conclusion
 

Okay here's a "logical" explanation.

What if the account that won the event was the only account played from an IP address to which another account is often associated - but said second account was playing in the event from a different IP.

Here's another.
What if a relation to the person in whose name theVoid is registered is known to swap his registered account- thereby violating the rules of Pokerstars.

When I say "known" I mean from Stars piecing together IP/play info etc.

In general- here is my view.
Anyone who breaks the terms of service in one instance should receive far less leeway in another.
The safeguard of "but all the accounts actually have real name owners" applies less to someone where other evidence fails supports a conclusion that there was no malicious intent.


Shane and Jordan pretty much hit it on the head. Stars needs to do more than just catch the winning account when it happens.
But that doesn't mean catching only the winning account is a bad thing or in some way unjust.

Re: Stars Conclusion
 

My read saraya either has an agenda here or is totally clueless (grammar would suggest the latter), because no one in their right mind at this stage could be posting ''she'' over and over as if there's no doubt Mark's sister played the account and won the tournament.

Re: Stars Conclusion
 

I agree. It is in stars' best interest to let theV0id keep the money and say there is no cheating going on right after the event was over. This way Stars could avoid a really embarrassing situation. But they chose to do the right thing. and they spent a large amount of resource on it with nothing to gain for them. so i have to applaud stars for this.

Re: Stars Conclusion
 

[ QUOTE ]
completely agree with shooz... saraya, what makes you think that Stars would take measures like this so frivolously? They stand absolutely nothing to gain, they are obviously not keeping the money. I believe that they acted in the manner that they did because they had more than enough reason to do so... Do you really think a site like theirs would risk their reputation over a minor offense???

[/ QUOTE ]

If they would let the money go to The V0id, there would be a huge dispute over that it actually is ok to not follow the rules, since everybody seem to think she did something wrong, ofcourse they're not going to let the money go, they want to show an example right here right now, that you HAVE to follow the rules of pokerstars, this is perfect for them, human animals getting happy because she just lost 1.2m PLUS that they're showing EVERYBODY that you must obey the rules, altough they still dont have any evidence. Letting the money go would be worse than keeping it, also this makes people happy as it is increasing prize money, since the winner didn't mean anything for the commercial side of pokerstars, they found no use in it also. They are just doing what they think is the best for the company.

Re: Stars Conclusion
 

bb by midnight las vegas time or so

Re: Stars Conclusion
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Because it wasn't her playing the account genius and I'm more than happy for ka$ino to now be winning the money.
You argue that they are innocent but then say if they were 11th they wouldn't be caught, please try posting something logical in future. Yes more than likely some other cheats went under the radar but this one got caught winning the event which is a very good thing for all concerned.

[/ QUOTE ]

First of all how do you know she wasn't playing ? come up with some evidence before you state something, even pokerstars can't state this ? I was just saying come up with a hypotethical reason for it PLEASE. Second of all going out with theese statements 'genius' so 'dumb' and so on, there's just one sollution A IQ TEST COMBAT, lol.
I will be back later im going on dinner now.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't need to come up with a scenario, Pokerstars have already done that and proven it behind the scenes, it may not be in their security interests to tell you how. Do you think Stars have done this for a giggle? It's terrible business for them, they would probably pay out another million for him/them to be proven totally innocent.
Let's try getting back to your reason for assuming total innocence even though all the common sense factors point to otherwise??

Re: Stars Conclusion
 

use ur common sense to come up with one behind the scene scenario

Re: Stars Conclusion
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
completely agree with shooz... saraya, what makes you think that Stars would take measures like this so frivolously? They stand absolutely nothing to gain, they are obviously not keeping the money. I believe that they acted in the manner that they did because they had more than enough reason to do so... Do you really think a site like theirs would risk their reputation over a minor offense???

[/ QUOTE ]

If they would let the money go to The V0id, there would be a huge dispute over that it actually is ok to not follow the rules, since everybody seem to think she did something wrong, ofcourse they're not going to let the money go, they want to show an example right here right now, that you HAVE to follow the rules of pokerstars, this is perfect for them, human animals getting happy because she just lost 1.2m PLUS that they're showing EVERYBODY that you must obey the rules, altough they still dont have any evidence. Letting the money go would be worse than keeping it, also this makes people happy as it is increasing prize money, since the winner didn't mean anything for the commercial side of pokerstars, they found no use in it also. They are just doing what they think is the best for the company.

[/ QUOTE ]
oh boy where do I start om this one???
you think this is some kind of conspiracy and all us random forum people just decided to pick on ''her'' without any reason??? I didn't even know the account was in his sisters name when I heard it was him multi-accounting...
''winner didn't mean anything for the commericial side of pokerstars'' is about the worst thing you've come up with so far, have you heard of Chris Moneymaker???
Thank goodness I'm going to bed now so everyone else can field your next effort...

Re: Stars Conclusion
 

[ QUOTE ]
use ur common sense to come up with one behind the scene scenario

[/ QUOTE ]
Mark Telscher was sitting at a computer playing the WCOOP ME on an account under his sisters name who wasn't in the same country at the time.
*that is purely a guess to appease saraya btw
now you tell us why you believe she/he is innocent?? I'll look forward to that in the AM...

Re: Stars Conclusion
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
use ur common sense to come up with one behind the scene scenario

[/ QUOTE ]
Mark Telscher was sitting at a computer playing the WCOOP ME on an account under his sisters name who wasn't in the same country at the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or the other one I posted- which is that straw accounts fail to pass the sniff test when other factors tend to point to repeated violations of the terms of service.

Re: Stars Conclusion
 

What makes you think that they do not have any evidence??? The fact that they haven't written you a personalized letter revealing propietary information about how they investigate these matters, or confidential information about the player's account, just to convince you that you are wrong??? Do you really expect me to believe that just because that there is information that they cannot share with us for what must be legal reasons, that they are intentionally trying to screw an "honest" player out of their prize money??? I'm sorry but, just because this is my first day posting here, doesn't mean I was born yesterday...

Re: Stars Conclusion
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Certain things have to be clarified, Stephen W wrote
1. The account that won the WCOOP main event was played from the same computer and the same IP from the start of the tournament until the finish.
2. No other account played from this same IP or computer, during the tournament.

Having stated the above, there are still serious open questions that require the investigation to continue.

Now multiaccounting seems to be out of the question, so where are the evidence that the void should be discqualified ?, and more what about the other probably 500 players that actually were multiaccounting, no further investigation is made upon them, or maybe someone used some other players account. There are no evidence saying anything about any kind of cheating whatsoever. Just not enough evidence saying it was her, that's going a little bit to far. It seems like alot of people in this forum seem enjoyment in people losing money or getting devastated from a loss, ofcourse jealousness is of human nature and people to choose to act like an animal are welcome to, but guess what making this girl lose 1.2m dollars are not going to make your life better. In fact it's not even going to change her life, just a depression of not getting something, and the WCOOP title she was entitled to. There were at least two players on the final table, that i know that were not following the rules of pokerstars. Now The V0id account has followed all rules and there are no evidence pointing on that it was not her playing, altough there are plenty of evidence pointing out other players, and no further investigation are made upon theese players?
It seems like pokerstars are going after the forums reading what the people have to say about it, what kind of company would do such a rdicioulus investigation, and ignore other players actually not obeying the rules?

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks for your input Mark

[/ QUOTE ]

agreed. you got caught dude. some people get caught, some don't. get over it

Re: Stars Conclusion (short answer = void is owned)
 

If I was him I would crash course my sister in tournament poker 24/7 for as long as it takes to make it plausable and take stars to court gangsta-style!

Re: Stars Conclusion (short answer = void is owned)
 

[ QUOTE ]
If I was him I would crash course my sister in tournament poker 24/7 for as long as it takes to make it plausable and take stars to court gangsta-style!

[/ QUOTE ]
lol. Which court?

Re: Stars Conclusion (short answer = void is owned)
 

first of all im not mark teltscher, let a OP check up my IP adress and they can link me to Las Vegas, Bellagio. Mark Teltscher lives in London, UK. further than that mark teltscher was just in barcelona, and he's probably sleeping right now. I'm just here from an above perspective since everybody seems to think that the right thing to do was to disqualify the void, im just saying what doesnt point out 200 other players in this tournament should be disqualified as well?, seems to me like people want to disqualify the void just because they dont like Mark Teltscher? this is not about hate or love, its about doing the right thing, anyhow of course im sure pokerstars made a good investigation I just dont understand how they can prove anyone guilty without evidence enough? in fact the account The Void was not multiaccounting, what could be worse than multiaccounting ?

Re: Stars Conclusion (short answer = void is owned)
 

[ QUOTE ]
first of all im not mark teltscher, let a OP check up my IP adress and they can link me to Las Vegas, Bellagio. Mark Teltscher lives in London, UK. further than that mark teltscher was just in barcelona, and he's probably sleeping right now. I'm just here from an above perspective since everybody seems to think that the right thing to do was to disqualify the void, im just saying what doesnt point out 200 other players in this tournament should be disqualified as well?, seems to me like people want to disqualify the void just because they dont like Mark Teltscher? this is not about hate or love, its about doing the right thing, anyhow of course im sure pokerstars made a good investigation I just dont understand how they can prove anyone guilty without evidence enough? in fact the account The Void was not multiaccounting, what could be worse than multiaccounting ?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no idea who thevoid is, or why people dislike him but I completely disagree with you. You're argument is going along the same lines of a drugs cheat athlete should not be stripped of their medals, because there are probably some other drug cheats out there that weren't good enough to win it.

Yeah there probably are other poker cheaters out there, however it should only be fair that if they are caught they suffer the same consequences. Obviously being successful brings more motivation to check out a single person, and I think this is great for online poker knowing that if you're multi accounting and score big, you will just loose it anyway.

Stars should not, and will not reveal the investigation behind the matter. They have no reason to lie, they have no financial gain, no motive. All revealing details potentially does is give away private information of the parties involved, and potentially make it harder to detect multi accouters in the future as they know what techniques are used to investigate them.

Well done stars for putting some integrity into the realm of online poker, where it is needed at the moment.

Re: Stars Conclusion (short answer = void is owned)
 

thevoid = DB?

Re: Stars Conclusion (short answer = void is owned)
 

Finally someone with actually good points like peleus, the only problem is that in athletics drugs are proven to be used. in this poker case theres no real evidence. I mean dont you think its scary that pokerstars can disqualify a person without any grounds?, sure if they're private, just doesn't make any sense to me in this case.

Re: Stars Conclusion (short answer = void is owned)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Finally someone with actually good points like peleus, the only problem is that in athletics drugs are proven to be used. in this poker case theres no real evidence.

[/ QUOTE ] Of course there is, that's why he's been excluded from the tournament.
[ QUOTE ]
I mean dont you think its scary that pokerstars can disqualify a person without any grounds?

[/ QUOTE ] Yes I do, thankfully they havn't however, they've disqualified him for cheating.

[ QUOTE ]
sure if they're private, just doesn't make any sense to me in this case.

[/ QUOTE ]What doesn't make sense?

Re: Stars Conclusion (short answer = void is owned)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Finally someone with actually good points like peleus, the only problem is that in athletics drugs are proven to be used. in this poker case theres no real evidence. I mean dont you think its scary that pokerstars can disqualify a person without any grounds?, sure if they're private, just doesn't make any sense to me in this case.

[/ QUOTE ]

To be completely honest, you, or me, or anyone cannot make any educated statement about what proof they do and don't have. The fact that poker stars handles millions of dollars worth of transactions a year, has no financial motive for disqualifying someone incorrectly, and the fact this is almost an unprecedented occurrence lets me give them the benefit of the doubt this time. It simply makes no sense for poker stars to damage their reputation by admitting that their online champion is a cheat, when they should be going after him with some type of endorsement deal.

Re: Stars Conclusion (short answer = void is owned)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Finally someone with actually good points like peleus, the only problem is that in athletics drugs are proven to be used. in this poker case theres no real evidence. I mean dont you think its scary that pokerstars can disqualify a person without any grounds?, sure if they're private, just doesn't make any sense to me in this case.

[/ QUOTE ]

To be completely honest, you, or me, or anyone cannot make any educated statement about what proof they do and don't have. The fact that poker stars handles millions of dollars worth of transactions a year, has no financial motive for disqualifying someone incorrectly, and the fact this is almost an unprecedented occurrence lets me give them the benefit of the doubt this time. It simply makes no sense for poker stars to damage their reputation by admitting that their online champion is a cheat, when they should be going after him with some type of endorsement deal.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure, but this isn't some dumpy 10+1 tourney. This is the premier event on the a site presents itself as the premier poker site in the world. And they portray the event as the world championship of online poker. I don't know that they have to disclose how they caught him but I do think they should reveal the violation that stripped the Void of the title.

For comparison, if Tiger were stripped of a Masters title, don't you think, along with the announcement, would be the reason why? I.E. Tiger Woods is being stripped of his latest masters title for using an illegal driver during each of his four rounds of play...

You would never see an announcement that said, Tiger is being stripped of his title for violating a rule. Period.

By the same token, I think its entirely appropriate for PS to say, the void was stripped of his title for using banned software during the tournament, or whatever. In fact, not only do I think its appropriate, I think it ought to be mandatory.

--Zetack

Re: Stars Conclusion (short answer = void is owned)
 

Give Stars a chance, this is a huge issue and it took them over a week to bring the investigation to a conclusion. You can't expect them to just spill out all the info within 48 hours, especially when alot of it will be security sensitive. They have been communicating in this thread so far so I see no reason why this will stop and they will get back to it when possible.
As for our new friend saraya, I'm going to go with agenda mixed in with slight lack of writing skills. Your main points seem to be it's not fair one cheat being caught when others didn't get caught, well yes it would be nice if no one escaped the net, but that's not reason to defend this cheater. And secondly you keep going on about there being no evidence when it is only logical to assume Stars has concrete evidence that it cannot currently or ever share. Unless you have any knowlege/evidence to the contrary please stop baging on about this ridiculous assertion.

Re: Stars Conclusion (short answer = void is owned)
 

[ QUOTE ]
first of all im not mark teltscher, let a OP check up my IP adress and they can link me to Las Vegas, Bellagio.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do I count? I have made some posts in the micro-NL forum, I believe. But how do I check up an IP adress??+

Confusing.

Re: Stars Conclusion (short answer = void is owned)
 

I would like to ask one question on this subject, I wonder if I missed this but I don't see it being addressed.

Was PS informed of the player as a suspect from other players, or were they investigating and finding this on their own accord?

In the past this all came evident from other players being upset or concerned who played in the event or knew the players.

I don't even know if this is a known variable, just curious as to how this came around.

Re: Stars Conclusion (short answer = void is owned)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would like to ask one question on this subject, I wonder if I missed this but I don't see it being addressed.

Was PS informed of the player as a suspect from other players, or were they investigating and finding this on their own accord?

In the past this all came evident from other players being upset or concerned who played in the event or knew the players.

I don't even know if this is a known variable, just curious as to how this came around.

[/ QUOTE ]

Stars automatically checks players from large MTT wins whether others say anything or not and thats why Stars is great IMO.

Re: Stars Conclusion (short answer = void is owned)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would like to ask one question on this subject, I wonder if I missed this but I don't see it being addressed.

Was PS informed of the player as a suspect from other players, or were they investigating and finding this on their own accord?

In the past this all came evident from other players being upset or concerned who played in the event or knew the players.

I don't even know if this is a known variable, just curious as to how this came around.

[/ QUOTE ]
Anyone who makes the final table of a major tournament is security reviewed

Re: Stars Conclusion (short answer = void is owned)
 

Interesting, so only those on the final table. I guess we have a long ways to go on the security front.

Thanks.

Re: Stars Conclusion (short answer = void is owned)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If I was him I would crash course my sister in tournament poker 24/7 for as long as it takes to make it plausable and take stars to court gangsta-style!

[/ QUOTE ]
lol. Which court?

[/ QUOTE ]
The basketball court, the only court recognized by the tru gangsta.
I hear Stars has some mean hops, so watch out.

Re: Stars Conclusion (short answer = void is owned)
 

Does ps investigate telephonkiosk now because he technically made the final table?

Re: Stars Conclusion (short answer = void is owned)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting, so only those on the final table. I guess we have a long ways to go on the security front.

Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]
PokerStars's standard practice is to conduct a special security review for players in each large tournament, including the Sunday Million and WCOOP events.

At this time the review is completed for all players in the WCOOP Main Event which concluded on October 1, except for the winner, where the investigation is continuing. We hope to conclude it as soon as possible.

The details of all security investigations are confidential.

This player has also requested that their personal information is not disclosed, and therefore PokerStars cannot divulge information about the player's identity.

Stephen W.
Manager, PokerStars Game Security

Re: Stars Conclusion
 

If the void isn't guilty, you'd think we'd have heard his/her backlash on this incident on the net by now.

Re: Stars Conclusion
 

[ QUOTE ]
If the void isn't guilty, you'd think we'd have heard his/her backlash on this incident on the net by now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not all poker players frequent online poker forums. I wouldn't take his non-posting on the web as an admission of guilt on his part. And even if the void is a regular poster on the web, a smart man might not post anything until he felt like all avenues of appeal with PS had dried up.

Re: Stars Conclusion
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If the void isn't guilty, you'd think we'd have heard his/her backlash on this incident on the net by now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not all poker players frequent online poker forums. I wouldn't take his non-posting on the web as an admission of guilt on his part. And even if the void is a regular poster on the web, a smart man might not post anything until he felt like all avenues of appeal with PS had dried up.

[/ QUOTE ]
Indeed you can't read too much into that.
But from what I've heard after Stars accussed him they gave him a period to respond to the charge before they made things public. I would guess that he knew he was bang to rights and didn't have any comeback, apart from maybe bargaining to keep the ''play2kill'' account active.

StephenW please respond
 

PokerStarsStephenW has said
[ QUOTE ]

The investigation into the WCOOP Main Event has now been concluded.

We have determined, based on the totality of evidence, that the tournament winner “TheV0id” was in breach of the PokerStars Terms of Service.

In the interests of Game Integrity, “TheV0id” has been disqualified from first place.


[/ QUOTE ]

I can understand that PokerStars may not wish to reveal all of the details
of their investiagation at this time. But wouldn't it help matters if
StephenW specificied exactly which parts of the Terms of Service
were violated by TheV0id?

Thanks,
Jonathan

Re: StephenW please respond
 

stars pulled the replay of m.e ft. did the various players get their money yet?