Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

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Leveraged investing means borrowing to invest. Where does borrowing fit into your plan?

Oh wait... unless you are leveraging other peoples ideas, then I think I get it.

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do you know what you're talking about??

Barron

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

47outs, as you likely know there are people on this forum who are very knowledgeable about the markets etc. sure, im following there posts and acting on them, just like we read poker books and act on them, i read investing forums and try to gauge what the majority of people think and particularly posters who, for whatever reason, i believe in their judgement.

anyways, i finally bit the bullet and invested in oil. £200 per $1 swing, stop loss at $90, limit sell (? if that is correct i can never remember) at $100.

kinda wish i had done all futures so i could see total profit/loss on each position, instead for gold and silver i have rolling daily positions so i cant see how much they're up/down overall.

anyways, now got:

£100 per $1 swing in gold spot price
£11.50 per $1 swing in silver spot price
£200 per $1 swing in oil
£330 per 1 yen swing per $1
£150 per 1% swing (at current price) in hong kong index
£120 per 1% swing in india index
£40 per 1% swing in norther rock

want to add 1 currency, pretty annoyed i ended my GBP/USD position (especially given it was just a hedge against my $ holdings, but oh well).
tempted to go for a little on partygaming given recent small drop in last couple of days.

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

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£11.50 per $1 swing in silver spot price

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is your swing trade per dollar or per penny for silver?

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

per penny sorry, my mistake.

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

Mind clarifying what price you got in at for oil as well as how you're investing in it?

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

$94.5 for daily US crude. had enough of reading so much about how oil will hit $100 i figure i could make a quick £1k if it hits $100. ill sell then as from what ive read the potential above $100 is limited.

ive been meaning to invest since it was at $80 or so but never got round to it.

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

What i mean is, if you didn't use futures to make this bet, what did you use?

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

ah sorry, i use spreadbetting which is available in the UK. www.igindex.co.uk is the site i use. tax free winnings but can't offset your losses. basically CFD but slightly larger spreads as it's tax free. i use this site for all my dealings.

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

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£100 per $1 swing in gold spot price
£11.50 per $1 swing in silver spot price
£200 per $1 swing in oil
£330 per 1 yen swing per $1
£150 per 1% swing (at current price) in hong kong index
£120 per 1% swing in india index
£40 per 1% swing in norther rock

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That's quite a large collection of positions. My estimate is you have around £150K / $300K market exposure. Many of those markets are pretty volatile. I know I keep harping on about risk in these forums, but what's your portfolio heat, and how big is the account you're using to trade these positions?

Since these positions are large (larger than some SB dealers would except, I believe) then I'd suggest using futures. I think your costs would be lower.

Also, how much overnight financing are you paying for these positions? I'd estimate it to be around £30/day.

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

i know these are pretty risky but i feel i have stop losses at safe enough amounts (8% currencies, 15-20% commodities, 25-30% india and china indices). the account in theory has £27k, but at the moment only have 12k deposited as i dont bother putting in a full stop loss for something like gold where a drop to 700 in a few days is very unlikely.

forgive my overwhelming lack of knowledge at times, but when you say futures do you mean contracts for say march 08? if so, all but gold and silver (gold becuase it was the first trade i did and didnt know the difference and silver becuase i forgot and just did daily rolling) are on monthly or quarterly futures (if i am using the right term, not sure).

not sure about overnight financing, i know it costs me 7% annually, but for gold for example i know i lose 15 cents overnight i.e. if spot price is $803.50 at closing, it automatically rebuys me at $803.65. i worked this out at about 7% annually so it makes sense i think.

my two final positions im thinking:

long sugar. i was planning to add to my gold position by an extra 20%, but instead ill put this on sugar to diversify a little. this would keep within the 17.5% i have for commodities,; 10% gold, 2.5% silver, 2.5% oil, 2.5% sugar.

also the other currency trade i will add is:
CHF/GBP so long swiss franc vs pound.

these two additions are based on what ive read on kitco and what jim rogers says.

is there anyway to read more about what jim rogers says, i enjoy reading about his opinions (do you agree with him?)


also i really really really need to find a way to invest in the yuan, seems like minimal downside but huge upside.

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

Maybe you should stick to SB and look into futures at your leisure. Jack Schwager wrote a decent into book to futures, you could have a look at that.

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these two additions are based on what ive read on kitco and what jim rogers says.

is there anyway to read more about what jim rogers says, i enjoy reading about his opinions (do you agree with him?)

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Firstly, I'm not going to tell you not to trade off advice or tips from 3rd parties - just be careful of the source and their biases/interests. I imagine Kitco to perpetually have precious metals flagged as a strong buy (I could be wrong)

As for Jim Rogers, I wouldn't take tips from anyone who drives a pimped vehicle.
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...n/newyork4.jpg

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

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anyways, now got:

£100 per $1 swing in gold spot price
£11.50 per $.01 swing in silver spot price
£200 per $1 swing in oil


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Blastoff.

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

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anyways, now got:

£100 per $1 swing in gold spot price
£11.50 per $.01 swing in silver spot price
£200 per $1 swing in oil


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Blastoff.

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QFT lol

though i'd be ready to jump out of that oil position pretty soon

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

should be a good day for you jk. I just got into sso and a really small canadian silver company.

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

I think this is a refreshing change from the " [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]I DESERVE RESPECT" thread. JK admits he's not sure about everything and seems to have left his ego to one side - which is something that can't be said for a certain footwear-named regular.

Kudos to JK for disclosing all his positions before they are up X%

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

couldnt believe my eyes when i checked the price and saw $840, i couldnt check it yesterday so was very nice to see

although i need to quit stock investing, i'm down almost £1500 mainly on northern rock and couple of punts ive taken.

total deposits have been £16k and now up to £23k so been a really good start.

profit entirely due to gold. the currency positions and other commodities are all in the plus, offsetting the losses from hong kong from my individual stocks. indian index is still even despite hong kong being down around 9%.

as for any pending changes, ive got a limit sell on oil at $100, i want to jump out of the northern rock position but at 150p i can see it falling to 130p with similar likelyhood to it going to 190p or so.

fingers crossed [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

ouchh! pretty painful day, but ive been expecting it for quite a while now. been lucky with the timing i entered gold in but unlucky when i entered hong kong index, down a [censored] load on that. pretty painful day, down around $11k, but i'm not particularly bothered, ive never added the gains to my thoughts of net worth so to speak as it really is an experiment and very much a long term investments.

right now increasingly position on gold looks tempting but think i may sit back this week and see what happens.

The 2 currencies trades have been super, CHF/GBP and JPY/USD have both stormed recently for an upswing of about $4.5k between them.

gl all, lets hope things can settle down a bit [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

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ouchh! pretty painful day, but ive been expecting it for quite a while now. been lucky with the timing i entered gold in but unlucky when i entered hong kong index, down a [censored] load on that. pretty painful day, down around $11k, but i'm not particularly bothered, ive never added the gains to my thoughts of net worth so to speak as it really is an experiment and very much a long term investments.

right now increasingly position on gold looks tempting but think i may sit back this week and see what happens.

The 2 currencies trades have been super, CHF/GBP and JPY/USD have both stormed recently for an upswing of about $4.5k between them.

gl all, lets hope things can settle down a bit [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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Sort of strange behavior for the market overall today with the late equity swing and all.

I've been long retail as of last week and was definitely encouraged when I went shopping with the g/f this week end and saw the malls packed with people. I think that gold and silver may not bounce back big because I think people might start to say "ok i've goten the bounce time to get out." It will be an interesting week I think.

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

last 10 days have been pretty crazy as for most investors i imagine.

i ended the long hong kong position at a loss of around $5k. may end the india position as well. the equities market over the next 12 months or so doesn't look strong at all and I want to see if both these markets can shake off problems elsewhere, as from what it looks like they can't. interestingly i read an article the other day about how strongly emerging markets have performed during the credit crisis so maybe that is an option.

on another low, crude oil is really annoying. i had a stop loss at $89.90 or so, the lowest the position hit was $90.05 according the igindex but they ended the position and it's now up at $97 or so, irratating. ive been busy the past week so didnt realise they had ended it....nice one john...

as for the positives, so far averaged in gains of 5% gained on CHF/GBP and 4.4% gained on JPY/USD which has been super.

overall at a little over £6k up so still in the plus. ill try and get some tables going of opening/ended/current positions as random ££ amounts means nothing really.

gl.

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

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on another low, crude oil is really annoying. i had a stop loss at $89.90 or so, the lowest the position hit was $90.05 according the igindex but they ended the position and it's now up at $97 or so, irratating. ive been busy the past week so didnt realise they had ended it....nice one john...

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This is a classic problem with spread trading. Since you are trading a derivative of a derivative, the market you are trading often has spikes not seen in the underlying. The market moves overnight also and you can get stopped out if the broker's algorithms calculate your stop was hit, even if the underlying market never traded at that level on that particular day.

It's possible with some SB brokers to buy the SB quote but place stops that are triggered by the underlying market. This might be an option for you to investigate.

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

thanks for explaining the problem kimchi, something ill definitely be far more wary of in the future.

general update, i am considering now putting half of all my income (salary, poker, other bits and bobs) into leveraging gold. busto would be at around $700. so say i make £5k income in a month. £2.5k into savings account, £2.5k into gold. so i'd add approx £20 per $1 swing in the spot price of gold.

fwiw i'd always keep £100k in non-spreadbetting stuff (savings/bankroll) but anything above i'd split 50:50.

good or bad or it depends?


currently i have increased my position to £150 per $1 swing. in a dream scenario i'd have £500 or so, meaning everytime it goes up $100 i'd make £50k, but i just dont have the balls to risk losing £50k right now.

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

uuurggghhhh, from at peak $18k up to now about $2k down. sick!

as soon as i started trading/altering %s/altering stop losses it's all gone wrong.

im going to re-do it and come back stronger. im leaving everything in there, im just coming up with a new funding approach (keep $30k in there, then 1/2 of salary+poker income) as i need to keep these as investing - long term buy and hold and top up when suitable.