Re: Chris Vaughn BluffMag multiaccounting
 

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well the winner of last weeks sunday million on stars will be receiving a very nice surprise soon im sure...details soon i imagine

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why? because you think, even if he did sell his seat in the first tourney, that he would do the same thing a week later? After a reputable poster already said they were staking him.

please. This is getting out of hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

You being a tiresome douchebag arguing black is white is also getting tiresome. The way you defend cheaters is nauseating

Re: Chris Vaughn BluffMag multiaccounting
 

Re: Chris Vaughn BluffMag multiaccounting
 

that's a great article. And I really, really wish that Sorel would defend himself and say that it isn't true. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

So sad.

edit, also to In your face: your comment is completely untrue and out of line.

Re: Chris Vaughn BluffMag multiaccounting
 

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edit, also to In your face: your comment is completely untrue and out of line.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you too think that naming and shaming cheaters is 'getting out of hand'?

This coming from the same ActionJeff that publicly condemns multiaccounters but has decided to keep the damning evidence to himself. I assume for the good of the MTT community?

Please tell me how what I have said here is souring to hear?

Re: Chris Vaughn BluffMag multiaccounting
 

I agree with G2CU here, i dont even care if they say its ok or not. Just have some clearly outlined stance about the issue.

Re: Chris Vaughn BluffMag multiaccounting
 

Sick kongs, I was railing while playing the main FTOPS event and saw you got disconnected alot so I thought you were fixing it somehow. (there must be a way to get a reliable internet connection in barca, even in the middle of the night).

After I got 2 outed with an healthy stack on the bubble I stopped railing, and was happy for you with your sick score. Didnt know you got disconnected.

Anyways, does this mean you will be nr 1 then? Time for a sick party?

Re: Chris Vaughn BluffMag multiaccounting
 

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[ QUOTE ]
edit, also to In your face: your comment is completely untrue and out of line.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you too think that naming and shaming cheaters is 'getting out of hand'?

This coming from the same ActionJeff that publicly condemns multiaccounters but has decided to keep the damning evidence to himself. I assume for the good of the MTT community?

Please tell me how what I have said here is souring to hear?

[/ QUOTE ]

no, I think that naming and shaming them seems to be the only recourse at this point. I also think that Jeff's response is fine. No one wants to see a witch-hunt, or people being accused of cheating with no evidence. Agreeing that research is needed is hardly condoning it. Chris's FTP win was disqualified, so I'm not sure why you think he kept any damning evidence to himself. Anyway, Jeff can respond to this himself; I just thought you could see where your thought processes need re-evaluation in the meantime.

Re: Chris Vaughn BluffMag multiaccounting
 

i was thinking it'd been a while since a good dramabomb.

Re: Chris Vaughn BluffMag multiaccounting
 

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
edit, also to In your face: your comment is completely untrue and out of line.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you too think that naming and shaming cheaters is 'getting out of hand'?

This coming from the same ActionJeff that publicly condemns multiaccounters but has decided to keep the damning evidence to himself. I assume for the good of the MTT community?

Please tell me how what I have said here is souring to hear?

[/ QUOTE ]

Chris's FTP win was disqualified, so I'm not sure why you think he kept any damning evidence to himself.

[/ QUOTE ]

From this thread - http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...rt=all&vc=1

comes this quote as the synopsis -

[ QUOTE ]
That's it. You know who you are, I know who you are, and if you really have the nerve to keep doing this crap out of greed and disrespect for the rules, then you better at least not tell one [censored] person, because you are putting a lot of faith in your peers right now, and not all of them are as considerate and discreet as I am.

-Jeff

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not trying to turn this thread against Jeff but it's ironic and getting annoying seeing him up there on the moral high ground.

Re: Chris Vaughn BluffMag multiaccounting
 

BTW without knowing many specifics I will add this. I met Chris in Vegas once he was a very nice guy, most people I know who have met him say the same thing. Assuming the info in this thread is correct, people need to realize that 250k or w/e is a lot of money and for someone like Chris who is a writer not a poker player it is easy to understand why he would want to reduce variance and ensure he makes a lot of money, and letting somebody buy his account does not make him a scumbag.

Re: Chris Vaughn BluffMag multiaccounting
 

ummm it's easy to understand why most people would want to reduce variance and ensure they make a lot of money... it's also easy to understand why people would want to steal from someone... that doesn't make it less scummy

I'm not saying he's a bad person, but it's clearly against the rules and he doesn't deserve to be placed above other cheaters just because you met him once

if he didn't know it was against the rules, that's one thing, but he lied about it after the fact (I think, I didn't read too carefully), which is more than a little scumbaggy

I met sorel in barcelona and he seemed nice too, but assuming he actually bought the account, I've lost a lot of respect for him

Re: Chris Vaughn BluffMag multiaccounting
 

Funkii,
Given how much money is at stake I don't really hold any ill will towards someone selling the account because I completely understand what they are doing and why. I do not see selling an account as being that wrong ethically especially because one does not have a lot of time to make the decision to sell their account. Given this they could easily make a hasty decision. IMO if someone thinks selling an account deep in an MTT makes someone a scumbag they have a ridiculously high set of moral standards.If he did lie about after the fact(I don't know) who [censored] cares, what was he going to say yes I sold my account now take all my money. The main point I am making there are tons of people who will go deep in mtts and opt to sell their seats for a guaranteed big score to reduce variance. There is little point in pursuing them because there are so many of them(basically anyone who goes deep in a big tourney) it makes far more sense to crack down on the account buyers because they are 99% of the problem.

Re: Chris Vaughn BluffMag multiaccounting
 

I fully agree with NHFunkii, however:

When you say, "It's clearly against the rules" I feel like we're opening up a Pandora's box of sorts.

Anything that falls within the jurisdiction of "clearly" to a degree warrants seizing of entire winnings, and anything that is like Plattsburgh's situation gets off scot free.

I feel like when you're operating on a system such as this you are inevitably going to run into problems when it comes to enforcing future situations that are 'borderline'. like g2cu states.

Re: Chris Vaughn BluffMag multiaccounting
 

Eagles,

Not trying to speak for Funkii; however I think he was just focusing on the fact that being a nice guy that is broke should not lessen the charge or the penalty.

The whole "scummy, not scummy" thing is just opinion based and not entirely relevant, no?

Re: Chris Vaughn BluffMag multiaccounting
 

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BTW without knowing many specifics I will add this. I met Chris in Vegas once he was a very nice guy, most people I know who have met him say the same thing. Assuming the info in this thread is correct, people need to realize that 250k or w/e is a lot of money and for someone like Chris who is a writer not a poker player it is easy to understand why he would want to reduce variance and ensure he makes a lot of money, and letting somebody buy his account does not make him a scumbag.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does Chris also have someone else finish off his stories for him when he's running up against a deadline?

Re: Chris Vaughn BluffMag multiaccounting
 

[ QUOTE ]
Eagles,

Not trying to speak for Funkii; however I think he was just focusing on the fact that being a nice guy that is broke should not lessen the charge or the penalty.

The whole "scummy, not scummy" thing is just opinion based and not entirely relevant, no?

[/ QUOTE ]
Ya I suppose. I mean obviously the penalty should be the same. Its just I saw a few posts earlier that were like Chris Vaughn is a scumbag(essentially) and all I am saying is from everything I know he's a good guy who just made a mistake.

Re: Chris Vaughn BluffMag multiaccounting
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
BTW without knowing many specifics I will add this. I met Chris in Vegas once he was a very nice guy, most people I know who have met him say the same thing. Assuming the info in this thread is correct, people need to realize that 250k or w/e is a lot of money and for someone like Chris who is a writer not a poker player it is easy to understand why he would want to reduce variance and ensure he makes a lot of money, and letting somebody buy his account does not make him a scumbag.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does Chris also have someone else finish off his stories for him when he's running up against a deadline?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was trying to think of a good way to equate it to his writing career, you have done a much better job so ill just quote it =)

Re: Chris Vaughn BluffMag multiaccounting
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
BTW without knowing many specifics I will add this. I met Chris in Vegas once he was a very nice guy, most people I know who have met him say the same thing. Assuming the info in this thread is correct, people need to realize that 250k or w/e is a lot of money and for someone like Chris who is a writer not a poker player it is easy to understand why he would want to reduce variance and ensure he makes a lot of money, and letting somebody buy his account does not make him a scumbag.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does Chris also have someone else finish off his stories for him when he's running up against a deadline?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was trying to think of a good way to equate it to his writing career, you have done a much better job so ill just quote it =)

[/ QUOTE ]
This analogy is retarded for 42121421124124 reasons

Re: Chris Vaughn BluffMag multiaccounting
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
BTW without knowing many specifics I will add this. I met Chris in Vegas once he was a very nice guy, most people I know who have met him say the same thing. Assuming the info in this thread is correct, people need to realize that 250k or w/e is a lot of money and for someone like Chris who is a writer not a poker player it is easy to understand why he would want to reduce variance and ensure he makes a lot of money, and letting somebody buy his account does not make him a scumbag.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does Chris also have someone else finish off his stories for him when he's running up against a deadline?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was trying to think of a good way to equate it to his writing career, you have done a much better job so ill just quote it =)

[/ QUOTE ]
This analogy is retarded for 42121421124124 reasons

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Why?

Your desire to defend your friend is noble and all but just quoting posts saying LOLOLretarded doesnt help

Re: Chris Vaughn BluffMag multiaccounting
 

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This analogy is retarded for 42121421124124 reasons

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Why?

Your desire to defend your friend is noble and all but just quoting posts saying LOLOLretarded doesnt help

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you read most of his posts? That reply is 100% standard and expected

Re: Chris Vaughn BluffMag multiaccounting
 

I find these threads hilarious now. There have been so many of them recently and they all run the same. Yet nothing will change. Jeff threatened the cheaters months ago and has done nothing, yet he still seems to have a lot of knowledge of the events. UCLA came on and threatened them then backed off and nothing has come of that.

Nothing will change until the players decide to make a difference. If you agree that the cheaters are stealing from you, why doesn't someone stand up and do something?

Re: Chris Vaughn BluffMag multiaccounting
 

If someone scams your granny for $76,000.00 they are a cheating lying scumbag...

If someone one cheats at poker for $76,000.00...it is the same. The rightfull winner might have used the money to buy his granny a hip operation, his poverty bound mother a house of her own or just got to retire from a shithole job. He/they cheated someone out of $ 76,000 .....the [censored] deserve to be in a shower in a 3rd world jail bending over for a bar of soap...... TAFN

Re: Chris Vaughn BluffMag multiaccounting
 

Luc,
You are phrasing your point poorly, I get what you are trying to say that one scummy/unethical move doesn't make the person as a whole a scumbag, but you are articulating it poorly.

The analogy is retarded.
1. Is editing cheating?
2. Is there a one writer per article rule outlined by Bluff?

Re: Chris Vaughn BluffMag multiaccounting
 

Okay this is going to be my last post in the thread but cliffnotes.
1. Inyourface (not inyaface) is one of the biggest trolls on 2p2 ban plz.
2. Selling accounts is unethical but in order to stop it sites need to crack down on account buyers, as well the sites need clearer strict guidelines on this for what is and is not allowed.
3. Committing one unethical act does not mean someone is a scumbag.
4. For whats wrong with analogy see Pudge's post.

Re: Chris Vaughn BluffMag multiaccounting
 

i agree fwiw about cracking down on things plattsburgh style, but how do you prove that? empirical (sp?) evidence? what if you have people sweating you and just think "out loud" on IM or in person as the case might be?

i mean, selling the seat is so far and away blatantly wrong that you have to crack down on it, but how do you enforce a situation like plattsburgh? and if you don't have any ideas, i think just railing against it is silly. it's gonna happen, because it's pretty clear that some people just don't have the ethical standards to give a crap.

Re: Chris Vaughn BluffMag multiaccounting
 

[ QUOTE ]
Luc,
You are phrasing your point poorly, I get what you are trying to say that one scummy/unethical move doesn't make the person as a whole a scumbag, but you are articulating it poorly.

The analogy is retarded.
1. Is editing cheating?
2. Is there a one writer per article rule outlined by Bluff?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok.

I can see the difference here, ty. Perhaps i should have put more thought into it b4 quoting it =)

I almost made similar rantish post like the one above yours.

As a losing MTT player it is frustrating to see the same people raping the end games, i can't imagine being on the level of having to battle with them. Some Catch 22 there huh?

Am i wrong in thinking that this is becoming more like the AP scandal? It seems that any time some unknown makes a thin call and is right on the FT bubble ppl now have to wonder just who it might be they are playing.

Sometimes i think i need a jcg2005spellcheck gimmick but hopefully i got my point across....

Re: Chris Vaughn BluffMag multiaccounting
 

how is there any defense to this? eagles, you say that nearly everyone who makes it deep into a MTT with a big prize on the line would sell their seat to a player to reduce variance..last time i checked, you cant do that live and if someone attempted it and the TD allowed it..everyone else at the table would freak and a riot would ensue..sorry for the simplicity and retardedness of the comparison but how is buying an online account any different?

Re: Chris Vaughn BluffMag multiaccounting
 

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3. Committing one unethical act does not mean someone is a scumbag.


[/ QUOTE ]
Given the precedent for this particular unethical act, I think you're wrong.

Are you one of those people who feel sorry for Pete Rose?

Re: Chris Vaughn BluffMag multiaccounting
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
BTW without knowing many specifics I will add this. I met Chris in Vegas once he was a very nice guy, most people I know who have met him say the same thing. Assuming the info in this thread is correct, people need to realize that 250k or w/e is a lot of money and for someone like Chris who is a writer not a poker player it is easy to understand why he would want to reduce variance and ensure he makes a lot of money, and letting somebody buy his account does not make him a scumbag.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does Chris also have someone else finish off his stories for him when he's running up against a deadline?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was trying to think of a good way to equate it to his writing career, you have done a much better job so ill just quote it =)

[/ QUOTE ]
This analogy is retarded for 42121421124124 reasons

[/ QUOTE ]

How so? Wouldn't it still just be his name under the byline? If done without credit, it would be just as fraudulent.

Re: Chris Vaughn BluffMag multiaccounting
 

[ QUOTE ]
Luc,
You are phrasing your point poorly, I get what you are trying to say that one scummy/unethical move doesn't make the person as a whole a scumbag, but you are articulating it poorly.

The analogy is retarded.
1. Is editing cheating?
2. Is there a one writer per article rule outlined by Bluff?

[/ QUOTE ]

You miss the point, sorry. Who said anything about editing?

If you publish an article under your name, that was written by someone else, that is journalistically unethical and dishonest.

Does it have the same impact as having someone else play your account? Obviously not. But that doesn't change the dishonesty of the analogous conduct.

Re: Chris Vaughn BluffMag multiaccounting
 

Mondo,
The analogy didn't say anything about hum publishing an article under his name that was written by somebody else. Even if that is the case than the analogy is saying him taking credit for the win is unethical not him selling his account.

Re: Chris Vaughn BluffMag multiaccounting
 

I'm gonna let the ppl who r smarter than myself finish this discussion. Sry to stir up [censored]

Re: Chris Vaughn BluffMag multiaccounting
 

[ QUOTE ]
G2cu,
Good post and it was not riddled with spelling errors.

[/ QUOTE ]

ban g2cu for multiaccounting his 2p2 account?

Re: Chris Vaughn BluffMag multiaccounting
 

[ QUOTE ]
Mondo,
The analogy didn't say anything about hum publishing an article under his name that was written by somebody else. Even if that is the case than the analogy is saying him taking credit for the win is unethical not him selling his account.

[/ QUOTE ]

Both are unethical. I thought it would have gone without saying that, in the analogy, the article would still have been published under his name alone. I give people too much credit for being able to follow a thought to its natural conclusion sometimes. My bad.

The best analogy is the dude who compared it to someone taking over a seat at a live table.

I don't know how you enforce such things, but really, it should be plainly spelled out on every poker site that taking over an account for any reason in any tournament is a bannable offense, and accounts/money will be confiscated.

Obviously, a site can't tell if two people are sitting in the same room and looking at the same monitor, but that would clear up most situations where two IP addresses play the same tourney. Even if it can't always be proven or stopped 100% of the time, does not make the act any less unethical.

Re: Chris Vaughn BluffMag multiaccounting
 

as far as this topic goes.. i think sites need to make some sort of release, emails, popups when u log in, etc, that clearly define a list of rules. i mean, i signed up for my accounts 3+ years ago, and back then i didnt think that if my computer crashed, and then exploded, if i called my buddy and told him to play my account and finish up the tourney and id ship him a %, it was a big deal.

i agree with andrew on this, in that sites need to make it ABC to understand the rules. everything is so sketchy and there are no clearly defined lines. when there is no clear rule on how everything plays out, stuff like this happens and will continue to happen until there is. i dont know anything about the ftp incident, but i know chris fairly well and think hes a great guy. again, im not defending him in this incident as i dont know what happened, but thats my thoughts on him as a person.

as far as the stars win goes, i know that durrr staked him for it, and im also 100% sure that durrr did not take over the account. dota is always more important than silly little tournaments. but yea, back to the main point, until sites clear up what their exact rules on things like this, INCLUDING stuff like coaching (which im pretty sure is allowed), one player to a hand (which is not enforced and is clearly stated to not be a rule), etc, then these things will continue to happen. ok continue the war.

Re: Chris Vaughn BluffMag multiaccounting
 

it will NEVER get old listening to clowns like Eagles defend cheaters. They always find a new pathetic excuse.

Re: Chris Vaughn BluffMag multiaccounting
 

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it will NEVER get old listening to clowns like Eagles defend cheaters. They always find a new pathetic excuse.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Chris Vaughn BluffMag multiaccounting
 

POKER --- THE NEW TEAM SPORT

Re: Chris Vaughn BluffMag multiaccounting
 

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POKER --- THE NEW TEAM SPORT

[/ QUOTE ]

pokerbowl

Re: Chris Vaughn BluffMag multiaccounting
 

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edit, also to In your face: your comment is completely untrue and out of line.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you too think that naming and shaming cheaters is 'getting out of hand'?

This coming from the same ActionJeff that publicly condemns multiaccounters but has decided to keep the damning evidence to himself. I assume for the good of the MTT community?

Please tell me how what I have said here is souring to hear?

[/ QUOTE ]

Chris's FTP win was disqualified, so I'm not sure why you think he kept any damning evidence to himself.

[/ QUOTE ]

From this thread - http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...rt=all&vc=1

comes this quote as the synopsis -

[ QUOTE ]
That's it. You know who you are, I know who you are, and if you really have the nerve to keep doing this crap out of greed and disrespect for the rules, then you better at least not tell one [censored] person, because you are putting a lot of faith in your peers right now, and not all of them are as considerate and discreet as I am.

-Jeff

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not trying to turn this thread against Jeff but it's ironic and getting annoying seeing him up there on the moral high ground.

[/ QUOTE ]

when did I defend cheaters or keep evidence to myself in this thread? wtf are you talking about, are you serious?

temp Ban for trolling please