Re: How did you do it? Financial Success Thread
 

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From Howard Treesong: I would have made an argument for 20% of the realized gain and been entirely satisfied with 10%. Had I been on the other side from OP, I probably would have offered 50 and let myself get talked up to 75.

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I know this is probably how big business works. But, if we take a step back and look at this - how is this any different than the union worker wanting more money when “he” makes the big corporation so much money?

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The difference is that the decision isn't leveraged. If management decides to pay a union worker $1/hour more and must then multiply that out times the number of hours and the number of workers, it's a massive decision. Here, it's just one guy in a one-off situation. To me, that difference is huge.

Success matters. If I were the OP's boss, I would have said "If you get it right, we'll take care of you. If you get it wrong, your job is at risk." If he lost $750K instead of making that, I'd fire him.

Re: How did you do it? Financial Success Thread
 

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Maybe I'm just weird, but the thought of waiting 40 years to retire/become wealthy just doesn't appeal to me. I think Scorpion Man's post was very representative of what it takes for success; someone smart who is both willing to work harder and take more (calculated) risks than everyone else. I really enjoyed reading that post.

One other thing it got me thinking about is you can't just blindly follow the trends. I can't tell you how many people I know tell me "I plan on making a little money and then getting into real estate because that's where the money is." Yeah, you could still make a lot of money if you are really good at it but the market is filled with millions trying to do the same. Find a new market that is just getting started (BEFORE it is getting hot) and learn everything there is to know about it if you really want to give yourself a chance for financial riches.

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In theory, Caby, you've got it right. To risk a tautology, though, risk is risky. For every guy that succeeds down the path you're contemplating, there are a dozen that fail and end up with little or nothing but regret. Talent matters, and you may well have it -- which increases your chance of success. But you can't violate the principle that risk comes with a price.

The traditional grinder method has a much better chance of success but a correspondingly lower payoff.

I don't mean to discourage you, by the way: far from it. Rather, be aware of the consequences.

Re: How did you do it? Financial Success Thread
 

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Putting money into an index fund doesn't somehow lock it in, though. The power of a compounding investment early in life pays dividends later when you will find business ventures. Having an extra 100k because you were smart at age 21 is invaluable.

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seriously though, is there anyone that doesn't know this? anyone that is smart enough to make 6 figures when they are 20 years old has invariably been told to stick it in an index fund. this to me doesn't take a ton of brains and is pretty standard. being smart is taking that X dollars you made and putting it in something that is going to make you abnormal returns over time, the index fund simply seems like a safe bet to me.

i agree, having an extra 100k because you chose to put your money in an index fund rather than leaving it in your checking account is great. i guess i am hoping that in 30 years that extra 100k will be insignificant compared to the money i have made by working harder and taking more risks than everyone else along the way.

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There are several guys I know that plowed a ton of money into solar energy in the eighties on exactly the theory you're contemplating. Of the four that did, one made a nice recovery and two ended up in permagrinder jobs. I haven't seen the fourth. Smart guys, all -- compadres of mine at MIT. Visions of the future are necessarily uncertain and perforce risky. Again, not intended to be a discouragement.

Re: How did you do it? Financial Success Thread
 

diablo you have a tendency to say "have smoe thoughts on thsi thread i will get back to it later" and not do it. glad you did it here, always great when you post on a topic in detail.

Re: How did you do it? Financial Success Thread
 

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The easiest way to financial success is just saving as much as you can every year, putting it in an index mutual and leaving it alone. It's not sexy or exciting. It just works.

MM MD

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This is what they taught us in college and I always disagreed with it. This is the easiest way to living a comfortable life when you are retired.

I think young people should be more concerned with busting their asses to do something your peers are not than simply saying "i'll put 20% of my pay into an index fund and then 40 years later I'll be able to afford to retire."

Maybe I'm just weird, but the thought of waiting 40 years to retire/become wealthy just doesn't appeal to me. I think Scorpion Man's post was very representative of what it takes for success; someone smart who is both willing to work harder and take more (calculated) risks than everyone else. I really enjoyed reading that post.

One other thing it got me thinking about is you can't just blindly follow the trends. I can't tell you how many people I know tell me "I plan on making a little money and then getting into real estate because that's where the money is." Yeah, you could still make a lot of money if you are really good at it but the market is filled with millions trying to do the same. Find a new market that is just getting started (BEFORE it is getting hot) and learn everything there is to know about it if you really want to give yourself a chance for financial riches.

tc

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hey TC definitly agree with your mindset 100% here. good post, bruiser.

Re: How did you do it? Financial Success Thread
 

if i put away 20% of my pay and work for 40 years i'll kill myself if my retirement is only 'comfortable'. i'm planning on more like 15% of my pay and working for 20 years and having a [censored] awesome retirement.

Re: How did you do it? Financial Success Thread
 

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if i put away 20% of my pay and work for 40 years i'll kill myself if my retirement is only 'comfortable'. i'm planning on more like 15% of my pay and working for 20 years and having a [censored] awesome retirement.

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I don't want to hijack this thread, but I'd like to hear you elaborate on your plans for this. Basically I don't think its going to happen, but I suppose alot depends on what you get paid and what you mean by a [censored] awesome retirement. Perhaps you could start another thread?

Re: How did you do it? Financial Success Thread
 

Yeah, well....sounds good.

The original question was about financial success, not how to live the "baller" dream lifestyle. For most people, having an automatic low six-figue income and being debt free at 55 would be a SCREAMING success.

Every day at work I see elderly people from shithole nursing homes who ended up in the nursing home because they couldn't afford the dog food they'd been living on for the past few years.

If you're smarter AND luckier AND more disciplined than everyone else, have at it. But if you're not as smart as you think you are, I'd suggest developing a taste for ALPO.
You're going to need it

MM MD

Re: How did you do it? Financial Success Thread
 

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Every day at work I see elderly people from shithole nursing homes who ended up in the nursing home because they couldn't afford the dog food they'd been living on for the past few years.

If you're smarter AND luckier AND more disciplined than everyone else, have at it. But if you're not as smart as you think you are, I'd suggest developing a taste for ALPO.
You're going to need it

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Alpo avoidance is a hell of a motivator, isn't it? I'm well out of the Alpo zone; I think I've guaranteed Mrs. Treesong and I a retirement at least at the Hamburger Helper level -- but even though that's true, I still occasionally feel the fear of an Alpo-filled twilight of my life. Not often, but boy, when that one hits, it really grabs you by the short-and-curlies, doesn't it?

Nice bedside manner, doc.

Re: How did you do it? Financial Success Thread
 

Are all the successful ppl in this thread doing stuff (ie: working, not if retired) they love, or, loved when they were young (ie: it was an aspiration)?

I like music, movies, tv and designing, (ie: drawing, websites, outfits, interior of houses, other gay things, etc..) . However, I am trying to keep them hobbies and not careers, meaning I will likely spend lots of time doing what I do not love 100%

I'm only 21, so I have a lot to learn. This is a great thread for all the young guys, thanks. Keep the stories coming.

Re: How did you do it? Financial Success Thread
 

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if i put away 20% of my pay and work for 40 years i'll kill myself if my retirement is only 'comfortable'. i'm planning on more like 15% of my pay and working for 20 years and having a [censored] awesome retirement.

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I don't want to hijack this thread, but I'd like to hear you elaborate on your plans for this. Basically I don't think its going to happen, but I suppose alot depends on what you get paid and what you mean by a [censored] awesome retirement. Perhaps you could start another thread?

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obviously he has something to back this up

Re: How did you do it? Financial Success Thread
 

Hey - my bedside manner is great - it just scares the crap out of me how EASY it is to total yourself financially, which affects my tone, I suppose.....

As you get older, what you think of as financial success changes so much.....my wife and I travel all over, I work about 12 days a month doing something I like, and knock down
a nice income doing it. And I max out my pension every year.
I have some silly "investments" too - I own a small piece of a jade mine in Central America, and a piece of a thorobred horse that runs about as fast as me.....but I don't [censored] with the nest egg - I don't even like the way ALPO smells.........

MM MD

Re: How did you do it? Financial Success Thread
 

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Hey - my bedside manner is great - it just scares the crap out of me how EASY it is to total yourself financially, which affects my tone, I suppose.....

As you get older, what you think of as financial success changes so much.....my wife and I travel all over, I work about 12 days a month doing something I like, and knock down
a nice income doing it. And I max out my pension every year.
I have some silly "investments" too - I own a small piece of a jade mine in Central America, and a piece of a thorobred horse that runs about as fast as me.....but I don't [censored] with the nest egg - I don't even like the way ALPO smells.........

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Actually, I suspect your bedside manner is just fine. And I tend to agree with your sentiments. One friend pointed out to me that his definition of financial success (he has no kids) is spending his last dime the very moment of his death. While that's nice in the abstract, I couldn't do it for the fear-of-Alpo reason you suppose. On the other hand, how much security is enough? With a gambling jones, $10MM is nowhere near enough. But with some basic discipline, $5MM should easily do it, particularly if you can work part-time at a job you enjoy. At least, those are my basic views. Yours?

jonvoight: find a career doing something you like. If you do, the hours don't seem like a drudge. I may have posted this view up above, but there are some substantial number of days in my law career where I would have paid someone for the privilege of doing my job. Really. Arguing in court with a smart judge when you're well-prepared is massive fun. Quelle geek, moi!

Re: How did you do it? Financial Success Thread
 

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I like music, movies, tv and designing, (ie: drawing, websites, outfits, interior of houses, other gay things, etc..) . However, I am trying to keep them hobbies and not careers, meaning I will likely spend lots of time doing what I do not love 100%


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why? you should do one of those things - if you're worried that you enjoy them because they are hobbies but would tire of them if they were "work" then i think you are wrong - at least based on my experience.

don't settle.

Re: How did you do it? Financial Success Thread
 

Hope I don't need nearly that much - but I have essentially no debt except for the house, which will be paid off when I hang it up. No kids, either - I'm on the eccentric well off uncle program, which is a lot more fun....

MM MD

Re: How did you do it? Financial Success Thread
 

I am very interested in all the talk about putting away or launching some investing idea. I, for one, am happy to just put my money away.

I'm worth about $120k right now. Almost all of it (110) made this year from poker. Finally have the discipline to play it right [uhh, for the most part]. In school, paying for all my own stuff. Still thrifty even though I am [censored] rich compared to my compadres. Today I bought a ton of Ralpha's brand tuna. 50c for 6oz baby!

My plan is to just save, and save, and save, and save. There is really nothing I want to spend my money on. I have a good portion of my money offline and on etrade. Hopefully will just keep on adding money to this account. Have almost nothing -just enough for an emergency or unannounced trip- in my bank account. If I could for the most part retire at age 30, have kids and take care of my family, that's all I want. At least right now.

I made a little spreadsheet on excell a while ago because I was considering putting money in a retirement plan and was wondering how long it would take to beat the penalty. A few different models with a lot of different assumptions, but generally I would beat the penalty after 8-10 years. I am 18 now. Thats fine for me.

My plan is to invest and save and play poker during my time in college. If I leave college with ~500k in my investment/bank accounts I'll feel golden. Anything less than that would be pretty disappointing considering this year's success, barring catastrophe.

Right now the part of my finances I think about most is balancing poker and everyday stuff. I try to play 1-2 hours a day, hopefully 1500ish hands just because the money's so good. But the rest of my life is so good too! A difficult dilemma.

No clue what to do after college, right now a philosophy major and could easily graduate in the middle of my third year if I wanted. Not sure if I want to do that and just have a phil degree, maybe double major phil/physics, maybe some kind of combined masters program if I really like in philosophy. But not really sure what I'd do with that. Not into working for the man, not into opening myself up to huge risks anymore, not into doing anything that isn't fun and challenging. Could easily see myself ending up doing some kind of research though not sure if I really want to come down to that.

Another thing I've been thinking about is opening my own private school one day. It would run expensive enough to pay reasonable salaries/benefits and I would probably wanna pay myself ~100k if I could, but the focus would not be on making money. That would probably be the ultimate, but I need to learn more about education and have clearer, more firmly grounded views in what an education should provide and how to do it. The main criteria for getting into my school would be desire to learn. I would hire teachers by stealing the best [as determined by me in attending some classes] from public schools.

thats a ramble and enough starting material for a gazillion other posts of mine to come.

Re: How did you do it? Financial Success Thread
 

This is the most educational thread I’ve ever read on twoplustwo. I’d like to sincerely thank everyone who shared their story. I found it very helpful as I'm contemplating what I want to do with my life. I'm sure most of the other young guys feel the same way. Just wanted to thank everyone and encourage everyone else to share their stories.

Re: How did you do it? Financial Success Thread
 

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Yeah, well....sounds good.

The original question was about financial success, not how to live the "baller" dream lifestyle.

If you're smarter AND luckier AND more disciplined than everyone else, have at it. But if you're not as smart as you think you are, I'd suggest developing a taste for ALPO.
You're going to need it

MM MD

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This thread is about stories of financial success. I should have been more specific and made it clear that for purposes of this thread I wasn't talking about "I got a job out of college and worked there for 40 years while putting the excess money I saved into index funds." While I consider anyone who is happy a success, this thread was more about the ways you did it which others on the forum may have never previously considered. I jumped all over the index fund/save money point because it is the first thing you read in any finance book and I think everyone on this forum already knows you should diversify your investments.

You are right, I may be a bit overzealous and overconfident. It is my opinion that no one is as smart as they think they are. However, I'm still not going to let the fact that it's difficult to do achieve what I hope to achieve slow me down. As long as I take calculated risks (ie stay w/in my bankroll in the game of life), I don't see how I can ever get hurt. If i lost a million or something, I could always go get a job (that's why I stayed in school).

I don't know what ALPO is, but I'm going to do everything I can to never have to find out.

Re: How did you do it? Financial Success Thread
 

this thread keeps getting better and better. love the recent contributions from El D, Howard, and JaBlue. And TC I have been intrigued by your comments as well since they come from a perspective that most posters on this board can't share: that of a motivated and extremely intelligent person who isn't especially risk averse. You talk about foresight and initiative being a key component of scouting out the next boom, but I know my 'boom' success didn't come from any particular foresight except a jonesing to gamble when I was in college. I got good at poker, and it got good after I did right as I came into an inordinate amount of free time. In short, I got lucky that such an opportunity came along and that I was talented and motivated enough to capitalize on it. I think the biggest key for me was sitting on my laurels and not doing anything totally stupid so that I was in a position to capitalize on said boom. I didn't tilt away all my money or spend it on frivolous things, and when the NL games starting getting really really good(started out as a limit player) I was able to jump in and make a mint.

I kinda plan on doing that again, all the while churning out market average or market beating returns on my invested money. When the opportunity strikes, I know I'll have the capital to take a calculated shot at it. If it never strikes, I'll have a damned good life anyway. Don't get me wrong - I'll certainly keep my ear to the ground - but I think for the majority of us we can't bank on spotting the next big thing before it comes. Hell, I had a ton of name recognition as a high stakes limit player across every site and if I focused on it could have generated a lot more. Guys like me just shrug our shoulders or try to ignore the attention, guys like you see it as a huge business opportunity and make millions shopping your videos on the internet. That's the huge edge you have over guys like me, but I can sleep soundly knowing that I can be very successful without earning the top .000001% like you and simply the top .01% that I have been so far.

James

Re: How did you do it? Financial Success Thread
 

Good for you, and sorry if I sounded like a jerk. IMHO the majority of people who post here are much sharper than the average person, and probably have a pretty good chance of doing well in whatever field they choose. If they choose a field that comes along with a nice income, they will likely be intelligent enough to invest and financially plan their lives so that they will be to some degree successful. What successful is changes as you get older.

David Lee Roth had a great quote - "Money cannot bring you to happiness. You can, however, park the yatch alongside and walk on over."

OTOH, the average American is as sharp as a marble. Less sharp when it comes to finances. For them, simple is MUCH better.....

Good luck - and btw, ALPO is a brand of canned dog food. Try to avoid it as your main course........I sure am.

MM MD

Re: How did you do it? Financial Success Thread
 

I'll throw out one more HUGE issue for financial success. Get married ONE TIME TO THE RIGHT PERSON. In my group of 44 MD's, at least half have been divorced at least once. Without exception, they have gotten KILLED financially each time.

And if you're thinking "the prenup will save me" - dream on - cause as soon as you have a kid, financially you're on the hook no matter what.

A good partner (I've been married for 22 years) is a tremendous asset. But you better be sure.....

MM MD

Re: How did you do it? Financial Success Thread
 

thanks to all who have contributed to this thread!!!

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this thread keeps getting better and better. love the recent contributions from El D, Howard, and JaBlue. And TC I have been intrigued by your comments as well since they come from a perspective that most posters on this board can't share: that of a motivated and extremely intelligent person who isn't especially risk averse. You talk about foresight and initiative being a key component of scouting out the next boom, but I know my 'boom' success didn't come from any particular foresight except a jonesing to gamble when I was in college. I got good at poker, and it got good after I did right as I came into an inordinate amount of free time. In short, I got lucky that such an opportunity came along and that I was talented and motivated enough to capitalize on it.

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this is basically what happened to me (and i also think enon and quite a few others who are now doing well)

My quick one:

my goal was always to find something i could do where i could get paid to think about what i love.

poker was for me a fun game to play while i was an economist at the dept of labor. at that salary, i couldn't live in DC. but with poker i was doing quite well.

i then decided to go to get an MBA because thinking about finance >>>>> thinking about survey data collected by the census beaurouaeau (i worked for years & could never learn to spell that word). however, that job as an economist taught me a TON. i excelled there, and while i didn't get published in either Econometrica or the Journal of Economics, i got good feedback from them & could have gotten published in the Journal of Health Care Economics had i put another 6mo-1yr into one of my papers. but the world of finance beckoned.

i went to a top 25 MBA program & played poker through the stuff i didn't like (passed everything though & excelled at all finance related stuff). i was one of 8 students out of 280 in two MBA classes to take the hardcore mathematical finance courses (stochastic calc--> mathematical finance --> derivative securities --> advanced derivative securities)...and one of 3 to finish the 4 course series. (the other two contacted me to interview at the fund at which i most recently worked. they didn't get past the first phone screen)

i got offered a job in august of my first year to start when i graduated. for those that don't know, this means that i didn't have to do ANYTHING other than learn or play poker for my 2nd year. after my first year though & that summer (where i earned the most i ever have to date via poker) i realized i couldn't stomach the huge amt of variance & both played lower & invested a ton in real estate & some CDs.

that year i didn't do as well but i didn't need to.

then the SH*T hit the fan for me. i was going to be an MBS (mortgage backed security) associate for a top investment bank in NY (my home). however, the group i was going to work with left. they all told me they hated the firm and the new firm they went to were only accpeting experienced hires.

so i could take the way more boring basically data-analyst role at the bank at which i had an outstanding offer, or gamble and try to find a better job.

care to guess what i did??

so i interviewed & traveled for the summer & early fall until i saw newhizzle win the borg tourney. there i met a great guy who introduced my to a top fund from which he recently left to play poker. they have possibly the toughest interview process i've seen (widely known amoung headhunters since they place very very few people there) and i "sailed through it."

i was "a dream" to work with in terms of my character & love of some of the material and my intellect according to my managers & collegues, but the job wasn't a fit for me. I've spoken with diablo about this and he basically knew i'd run into this from the start. it blindsided me. i didn't see that i wouldn't be doing enough financial market research/ trade analysis etc.

instead, i was doing all client service work. it was analytical & i got trained by two of the three CIOs in financial market analysis & market history (performance of asset classes/ diff types of securities etc. throughout varying time periods in history). it just didn't work out.

while i learned a ton & would repeat the experience if given the opportunity, it isn't what i think i should be doing in terms of job function.

i am now "unemployed" for the first time but feeling pretty good about it.

my severance package is good & i have two free months to find another job after working there for 6 months.

i'm not technically "financially successful" in the sense that howard and diablo are...but i think i'm slowly getting there. between real estate and other investments i have a fiarly good future from this vantage point.

i spend my day reading finance books & select sections of he FT, WSJ. The economist i read cover to cover. i try to internalize the info & see what new opinions i can come up with on the topics or how i would improve the writing. mostly though, i try to glean where i should be concentrating my energy

the rest of my time is spent networking & finding new shops to look at/interview with. so in the sense of my earlier goal (get paid to think about what i love), i think i've been very successful & hope to only improve & learn more in the future. i now have the DoL & a top 3 hedge fund on my resume so with hope, and a little luck & work, i'll soon be employed again as a research analyst in finance.

i hope the next time i have something to contribute to this thread i'll be worth many multiples of what i am now.

if not, i am pretty sure i'll be happy with respect to my lot in life based on some luck & hard work.

Barron

PS- oh yea...i'm also dating the best girl for me yet & am in love. so that helps too.

Re: How did you do it? Financial Success Thread
 

I'm obviously not worth millions like some of the people who have posted in this thread, but this seems pretty fun so I'll post something.

My grandfather showed me the world of gambling when I was around 10. He used to take me to betting shops to make some $1 sports bets one of the very first slips he gave me won like $18 and I was hooked. Few years after that I was playing slots, betting sports and losing basically all the money I could get(sometimes by not so honorable methods) on horses. I think around when I was 15 I got my hands on maybe one of the best sports betting guides ever written and realized I could actually make money from this. That was a big turning point, I began making my own %-estimations of the games and only betting the games I thought had value. Now that's obviously a good change, but it also had the negative impact of making me much less interested of school so I began skipping lot of classes when I noticed how much more interesting gambling is then studying "boring" books about math and whatever. I was still getting good grades tho and got into good high school.

In the beginning of high school, so this is like 3-4 years ago when I was 16-17, I found out about online poker and the massive rush it gave was insane. Sports betting and horses are both pretty fast action, but to gambling addict they are prolly same as weed to someone who shoots heroin. I began skipping more and more classes and finally dropped out about ½year after finding online poker. At the time my net worth was couple grand and was often betting 50% to 100% of it in single soccer game or taking the whole roll to 25/50nl(huge back then), so my bankroll management skills were non-existent and around that time I found out that I'm capable of going on these huge tilts, where I just don't see or hear anything until Ive lost my whole bankroll. I had few good runs in the beginning where I gambled my roll up to $40k or something, but then blew it by playing way too big games and next day I had to take all my pennies to bank and start rebuilding roll from $30.70. At this point its maybe good to mention that my poker skills are far from great and I have basically no understanding of game theory or the math involved in poker. The busto-robusto-busto thing went on for a couple years, until I got little better with money management, now I would still throw in random $200/$400 fixed sessions with $50k roll or something, but I was most of the time smart enough to quit in

In the beginning of 2006 I got some coaching from someone who was tearing up the online fixed games and singed up at cardrunners( 2 best poker education purchases Ive made) and was suddenly making good money with my improved poker skills. There was some super soft mid-high stakes games back then that not many knew about, so it didn't take much of a player to kill them. I obviously didn't realize that back then and thought I'm the chit, it was nice wake up when I hit extremely bad run for a few months that destroyed most of my bankroll and confidence. Sometime in autumn I got really lucky when I was browsing through all these small poker sites and found one(don't bother asking me, it doesn't exist anymore) where 5 10, 10 20, 20 40nl were softer then 1/2nl on pretty much any other site. Rebuilded my roll and confidence pretty fast there. Sometime around the end of 2006 50/100 and 100/200nl games began running there, there was couple really good players, to who I would every now and then donate decent chunk of my roll. But there was also one guy who was playing 100 200 headsup all the time, who I figured to have pretty big edge against. One day after a bad run I hopped into that game with like $70k total roll, ran really good that night and some other nights after that. Around that time I also began playing similar stakes on other site where I also did pretty good, as well as I was hitting all my bigger sports bets for a while. The success got little into my head and I took some foolish shots in too big games, like 200/400 and 250/500plo which costed me some money.

At that point I looked back and realized how incredible lucky I had been, as well as I saw that the bigger games were suddenly getting much worse and with my personality its almost impossible to grind something like $2/$4. So what I did was I put almost all of my winning to some funds that I cant touch, as well as I bought part of small business that has been doing great. For a while now I've been just playing poker and sports for fun and don't have any kind of passion to gamble for living in future.

Now I'm just trying to figure out what to do in future. The first thing is getting the high school done and enjoy life by travelling, and doing other stuff that I have sort of skipped so far in order to gamble. I think that also relates to only thing I learned from this, despite of the money(peanuts in my case) you make you shouldn't let work become the only important thing in your life.

Re: How did you do it? Financial Success Thread
 

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One other thing it got me thinking about is you can't just blindly follow the trends. I can't tell you how many people I know tell me "I plan on making a little money and then getting into real estate because that's where the money is." Yeah, you could still make a lot of money if you are really good at it but the market is filled with millions trying to do the same. Find a new market that is just getting started (BEFORE it is getting hot) and learn everything there is to know about it if you really want to give yourself a chance for financial riches.

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I agree with your general sentiment, but disagree with a few things. First simply because there are already millions of people involved in real estate shouldn't be a major deciding factor in it's profitability. Second finding the next new thing is probably a lot easier said than done. It's likely that most people making significant money from poker right now stumbled onto it as a hobby instead a premeditated move because there was significant money to be made from it. It's not to say that being in the right place at the right time is a result of dumb luck but it would seem to me to be in the position that you describe you would need a fortunate series of events to take place.

Re: How did you do it? Financial Success Thread
 

thanks for the feedback, guys. I'm not claiming I'm out spotting all these opportunities that no one else is, rather I'm just sharing the mindset I have about my future. I'm certainly being as proactive as possible as far as finding new opportunities and not just limiting my investment strategy over the next X years to index funds.

Keep them coming.

tc

Re: How did you do it? Financial Success Thread
 

Hey Taylor, hope it didn't seem like I was calling you cocky or anything. Not at all. I do think there is a big difference between 'not limiting my investment strategy over the next X years to index funds' and 'i guess i am hoping that in 30 years that extra 100k will be insignificant compared to the money i have made by working harder and taking more risks than everyone else along the way.' I find myself firmly in the 'not limiting my investment strategy' camp but I am definitely not in the working harder and taking more risk than everyone else camp. I admire that mindset, and believe that only a small percentage of people will succeed with it. I may be one of those people, I may not. I would definitely just kill myself if I somehow lost all my money and had to work a job I hated just to get back to even.

James

Re: How did you do it? Financial Success Thread
 

Thanks, techno. I guess I'm the grinder of the group (at least for now) but I'll give my perspective anyways. I work at a very successful large consulting firm, am towards the top of my class, and am on track to make partner in a relatively short time period (4-6 years - maybe 3 if I get lucky and really bust my ass?). Partners at my firm make around 1-5 million. Assuming I'm still towards the upper end, that means I'll be making 2-3 million per year within 5-10 years.

There is no way that's not enough to live a [censored] awesome retirement after doing that for 10-15 years. And it's not like the money making opportunities vanish once a successful partner in a large consulting firm 'retires'. The previous retirees from my firm are working part-time on the boards of companies, at VC firms, at private equity firms, etc. Sounds pretty kickass to me. Of course I may quit consulting early and do something else but there is very little chance that that 'something else' would be less lucrative. Quite the contrary in fact.

Re: How did you do it? Financial Success Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks, techno. I guess I'm the grinder of the group (at least for now) but I'll give my perspective anyways. I work at a very successful large consulting firm, am towards the top of my class, and am on track to make partner in a relatively short time period (4-6 years - maybe 3 if I get lucky and really bust my ass?). Partners at my firm make around 1-5 million. Assuming I'm still towards the upper end, that means I'll be making 2-3 million per year within 5-10 years.

There is no way that's not enough to live a [censored] awesome retirement after doing that for 10-15 years. And it's not like the money making opportunities vanish once a successful partner in a large consulting firm 'retires'. The previous retirees from my firm are working part-time on the boards of companies, at VC firms, at private equity firms, etc. Sounds pretty kickass to me. Of course I may quit consulting early and do something else but there is very little chance that that 'something else' would be less lucrative. Quite the contrary in fact.

[/ QUOTE ]

TWP - what kind of consulting do you do? I've considered the field but wasn't sure what kind of career paths/upward mobility there was...

Re: How did you do it? Financial Success Thread
 

management consulting to banks

Re: How did you do it? Financial Success Thread
 

Great thread Taylor. The stories I've read so far have been very interesting. I'll share mine in case anyone can get something out of it. I'm going to go a little more in-depth in terms of background because I think it will illustrate why I made the decisions that I did. Skip below if you don't want to read a long rambling semi-life story that really isn't all that interesting to anyone except myself.

I grew up in a pretty wealthy household, but my parents kept me and my siblings pretty grounded. One of the things they did buy for us was a great education. I was lucky enough to go to a great private school for 14 years (pre-K to 12th), graduate in 2000 and then head off to a fantastic private liberal arts college for 4 years after that. Even though I worked hard in school over the years to earn my grades, I owe my parents a ton for giving the opportunity to me.

Anyway, I had a double-major, but the one that I planned on using was my Business degree, with a concentration in Accounting and Finance. In the summer of 2003 (in between junior and senior year of college) I worked at a $3b hedge fund called Gardner, Russo & Gardner in Lancaster, PA while also interviewing with Big 4 accounting firms in Philadelphia. My first big mistake of my life was taking a job with Deloitte over that summer. I guess I just figured that I should lock up a job when I could and it paid mid-40s, but I figured I'd learn a lot. Only down the line during my senior year did I realize all of the opportunities that I'd given up. I was still working part-time at GRG, but that was never really a long-term employment option -- I didn't want to live in Lancaster and I'm not sure if they would have offered me a full-time position. It isn't that I didn't think they liked me, it's just that the nature of the firm didn't really allow for full-time people to be brought on after being an intern unless they were REALLY special and I wasn't really that great outside of my technical competence w/r/t excel and whatnot.

Anywho, I graduated in May of 2004 with all sorts of honors -- the one I'm most proud of being Phi Beta Kappa. That was really hard to get coming out of my majors at my school. I interned as a research assistant with two professors at Wharton. The initial idea was just to kill time until my job actually started in late September of 2004. I also made a little money which was nice. But the thing was, the work was very on and off. One day we'd have a ton to do, the next we wouldn't have any. There was data coming in from all over the world (it was a big research project) and when there wasn't any data coming in or issues to deal with, we just sat there. This is when I got into poker on a serious level. I loaded my work computer up with the various sites (no one there cared) and I started putting in some hands and learning. I'd only played casually before. By that I mean I just played off of what I'd learned from a college roommate and my gut. I had actually played a ton of hands, but most of that was at lower stakes SNGs. I had no idea how to actually play poker, but I had internalized most of the push-botting concepts key to beating those games. I moved up pretty quickly once I started lurking 2+2 and reading a TON of poker books.

Then in September, I started my job. Considering the roll that I built up over the summer, the money that I was making seemed insignificant. Add to the fact that I got assigned to a Sarbanes-Oxley preparedness engagement in Newark, Delaware (a horrible combination fwiw) and I was instantly disillusioned with the job. I stayed up most nights at home playing all night and I often reported to work with 2-3 hours of sleep and zero motivation. It really wasn't fair to the firm, clients or myself to keep working there, but I did. Somehow, I actually got decent reviews at all of my engagements except for one, where the person running the job figured out how [censored] stupid I was on that amount of sleep and called me out on my commitment to the job (I didn't have any, she was right). The problem was that I just wasn't really making enough from poker to quit my job. Sure I was playing high-ish limits for the time and beating them, but I was still very tilt-prone and I wasn't beating them by much. Really only barely beating the rake at some of them when I was playing on so little sleep.

So I kept on trucking at the job. But in December 2004 I was playing on one monitor and watching the last four tables of the Sunday million on the other. I saw a player with an avatar that said PSCrew.com on it. I was bored, so I opened it up and saw a message that said "I need help building this website -- contact me if you know how." Did I know how? No, not really. I knew something about computers. But I didn't know the first thing beyond basic HTML (things like bold tags or tables, lol). So I volunteered with the plan of figuring it out. Eventually things worked out and I built the site using the Mambo Content Management system with the Community Building plugin -- the real key was that I avoided all programming and just dealt with pre-built products. And the "PokerStars Crew" website was launched -- right around the same time as PocketFives. We grew pretty fast and I saw what P5s was doing with their rankings. I thought their system of basically making up the rankings was kind of retarded (even though I liked a lot of things about the site), so I decided to try to make something based on actual numbers. I'd done some experimenting with regard to collecting data for my own internal purposes, but this was the beginning of my first real public data-mining project.

So thepokerdb was officially launched. The only problem? I didn't know how to program anything. I was lucky enough to track down a programmer (another 2+2er, although I met him because he is the brother of the PSCrew guy) and we worked together on various versions of the site. It started as a manually entered (ie, paste in a tournament history from PokerStars, then it parses into a database) system and has gradually evolved. Most of the early work on thepokerdb was in May 2005 when I was still at my job. I knew that I wanted to leave my job, I just needed an indication that I would be able to survive without the income.

We kept working on the site and in July of 2005, I decide to take some time off for two reasons -- a) I wanted to completely redo thepokerdb and b) I wanted to study very seriously for the LSAT to give myself another option. So I took August and September of 2005 off from my job (a leave of absence -- I have no idea why Deloitte was so lenient). I took the LSAT on Oct 1st, 2005 and returned to my job on the Monday after that. That lasted like a week or two. After two months off where I could work on thepokerdb and do basically whatever I wanted, the work was just suffocating. I left for good on Nov 4th, 2005 with the idea of making thepokerdb a viable business and poker brand. This was a MAJOR risk, but also one of the best decisions of my life. I needed to get free of the CPA track. It was suffocating me in many respects to work in that sort of environment at that stage in my life. With the help of my co-founder and a lot of loyal supporters, we built thepokerdb very quickly into the premier online MTT database. We were growing by leaps and bounds from a user, subscriber and traffic perspective.

It was around the start of 2006 that I started a blog and started a thepokerdb partner site, PSDollars -- it was a W$ and T$ trading site. Using unique pictures (mainly of online players at live events who hadn't been photographed previously) on the blog, I generated a ton of traffic and utilized it to promote thepokerdb and PSDollars. Both of the businesses began to make a fair amount of money as 2006 went on.

I ended up getting into Emory Law school and I enrolled in August of 2006 with the intention of running thepokerdb while in law school. It wasn't overwhelming to do both. Obviously, this brought me out of the PA area for the first time in my life and I got an apartment in Atlanta. A month or so into school, a BLUFF staffer found out that I was in Atlanta and asked me to come into the office to talk. I did so and after a series of meetings, eventually a deal was worked out for BLUFF to take over thepokerdb. The formal press release was on December 6th, 2006, about 13 months after I quit my job (you can see it here). Around the same time, we reached 100,000 users -- which is more registered users than 2+2 has (although 2+2 has way more traffic with all of the lurkers, etc).

I took a pretty incentive heavy deal. I have a heavy interest in the continued performance of thepokerdb and I made the decision to take at least one year off of law school to work on the site with BLUFF. We've since integrated thepokerdb into the BLUFF website with success, although there were many rocky moments during various periods of technical difficulty. So that's why I've been doing since the beginning of the year.

Now I'm at a point where between thepokerdb, PSDollars, my BLUFF equity stake, a rakeback thing that I can't discuss due to legal implications, various assets and other things, my net worth is in the 7 figures. Considering that in early November 2005 I had like $30K to my name, that's pretty good. Right now I have what I think is a MONSTER idea for a poker related business that I'm working on. I really can't believe that no one has done it before, but surprisingly enough, nothing even remotely comparable exists anywhere in the poker world. And based off of the response I've gotten from people that I've told about it, my opinion is shared. So right now I'm continuing to work on thepokerdb, starting work on this new idea and just enjoying working for myself. I guess that pretty much wraps this up. Hopefully someone enjoyed this even though it goes way above and beyond what anyone else has written or what Taylor was asking. Obviously feel free to ask away about anything.

Re: How did you do it? Financial Success Thread
 

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Obviously feel free to ask away about anything.

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What's the new idea? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: How did you do it? Financial Success Thread
 

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Obviously feel free to ask away about anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's the new idea? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
The new idea is probably an old one that was way ahead of its time.

Re: How did you do it? Financial Success Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Obviously feel free to ask away about anything.

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What's the new idea? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
The new idea is probably an old one that was way ahead of its time.

[/ QUOTE ]
Nope, it has never been done. I obviously don't want to say it yet, but you will agree with me once you've seen it. I will admit that it's a heavily modified version of various things that exist. But it's far enough removed to be completely new.

Re: How did you do it? Financial Success Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks, techno. I guess I'm the grinder of the group (at least for now) but I'll give my perspective anyways. I work at a very successful large consulting firm, am towards the top of my class, and am on track to make partner in a relatively short time period (4-6 years - maybe 3 if I get lucky and really bust my ass?). Partners at my firm make around 1-5 million. Assuming I'm still towards the upper end, that means I'll be making 2-3 million per year within 5-10 years.


[/ QUOTE ]

Sure thing bro.

J

Re: How did you do it? Financial Success Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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Obviously feel free to ask away about anything.

[/ QUOTE ]
What's the new idea? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
The new idea is probably an old one that was way ahead of its time.

[/ QUOTE ]
Nope, it has never been done. I obviously don't want to say it yet, but you will agree with me once you've seen it. I will admit that it's a heavily modified version of various things that exist. But it's far enough removed to be completely new.

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i am soooooo sooo curious. time frame until we hear about it?

Re: How did you do it? Financial Success Thread
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Thanks, techno. I guess I'm the grinder of the group (at least for now) but I'll give my perspective anyways. I work at a very successful large consulting firm, am towards the top of my class, and am on track to make partner in a relatively short time period (4-6 years - maybe 3 if I get lucky and really bust my ass?). Partners at my firm make around 1-5 million. Assuming I'm still towards the upper end, that means I'll be making 2-3 million per year within 5-10 years.


[/ QUOTE ]

Sure thing bro.

J

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I really dont understand this point. Are you saying that I'm wrong? Or that I have a warped perspective? Sorry, I just don't get your point.

Re: How did you do it? Financial Success Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Thanks, techno. I guess I'm the grinder of the group (at least for now) but I'll give my perspective anyways. I work at a very successful large consulting firm, am towards the top of my class, and am on track to make partner in a relatively short time period (4-6 years - maybe 3 if I get lucky and really bust my ass?). Partners at my firm make around 1-5 million. Assuming I'm still towards the upper end, that means I'll be making 2-3 million per year within 5-10 years.


[/ QUOTE ]

Sure thing bro.

J

[/ QUOTE ]
I really dont understand this point. Are you saying that I'm wrong? Or that I have a warped perspective? Sorry, I just don't get your point.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think he's just saying you aren't a grinder... in a compliment kind of way! Btw, that doesn't sound like grinding to me either! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: How did you do it? Financial Success Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Obviously feel free to ask away about anything.

[/ QUOTE ]
What's the new idea? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
The new idea is probably an old one that was way ahead of its time.

[/ QUOTE ]
Nope, it has never been done. I obviously don't want to say it yet, but you will agree with me once you've seen it. I will admit that it's a heavily modified version of various things that exist. But it's far enough removed to be completely new.

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I was just making a generalized statement about *new ideas*. I wasn't directing it at you haha.

Re: How did you do it? Financial Success Thread
 

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Thanks, techno. I guess I'm the grinder of the group (at least for now) but I'll give my perspective anyways. I work at a very successful large consulting firm, am towards the top of my class, and am on track to make partner in a relatively short time period (4-6 years - maybe 3 if I get lucky and really bust my ass?). Partners at my firm make around 1-5 million. Assuming I'm still towards the upper end, that means I'll be making 2-3 million per year within 5-10 years.


[/ QUOTE ]

Sure thing bro.

J

[/ QUOTE ]
I really dont understand this point. Are you saying that I'm wrong? Or that I have a warped perspective? Sorry, I just don't get your point.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think he's just saying you aren't a grinder... in a compliment kind of way! Btw, that doesn't sound like grinding to me either! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

it's grinding. definitely grinding. mad hours, travel all the time. interesting/thoughtprovoking work but still a grind.

i didn't know you were on partner track though man. congrats!

Barron

Re: How did you do it? Financial Success Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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[ QUOTE ]
Thanks, techno. I guess I'm the grinder of the group (at least for now) but I'll give my perspective anyways. I work at a very successful large consulting firm, am towards the top of my class, and am on track to make partner in a relatively short time period (4-6 years - maybe 3 if I get lucky and really bust my ass?). Partners at my firm make around 1-5 million. Assuming I'm still towards the upper end, that means I'll be making 2-3 million per year within 5-10 years.


[/ QUOTE ]

Sure thing bro.

J

[/ QUOTE ]
I really dont understand this point. Are you saying that I'm wrong? Or that I have a warped perspective? Sorry, I just don't get your point.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think he's just saying you aren't a grinder... in a compliment kind of way! Btw, that doesn't sound like grinding to me either! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

it's grinding. definitely grinding. mad hours, travel all the time. interesting/thoughtprovoking work but still a grind.

i didn't know you were on partner track though man. congrats!

Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

I seriously doubt this is the case.