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Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
Sounds like the Saudis are where the U.S. was during slavery. Let's give them time to catch up. They are exercising U.S. practices, just those practiced 150 yrs ago.
Every time we point the finger at someone, we have 3 pointing back at us. The invasion of the Philippines in 1897, where we slaughtered 250k men women and children comes to mind...... To get a proper perspective on that number, Germany and Japan only managed to kill 450k Americans during WWII and look at the advanced machinery they had. Both were 4 year wars. The Saudis may be behind the current times of the U.S., however, they are not practicing anything the U.S. hasn't practiced. I'm sure the Native Americans are laughing their asses off at all you pompous boat people who continually point the finger at others. As early as the 50's, we overthrew an elected leader in Iran, because he wanted to nationalize the oil. Britain didn't like that, so we organized a coup, installed the Shaw and sold him billions in military aid. There is not a single citizen in Iran who has not had a relative that was not subjected to the Shaw's tyranny. Get off your high horse. |
Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
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Get off your high horse. [/ QUOTE ] So, because Americans killed a lot of Filipinos a hundred years ago, it's OK for the Saudis to oppress a woman? That doesn't make any sense at all. Why are you even citing a bunch of events that happened before most of us were born? They aren't relevant, and certainly not in a moral sense. |
Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Get off your high horse. [/ QUOTE ] So, because Americans killed a lot of Filipinos a hundred years ago, it's OK for the Saudis to oppress a woman? That doesn't make any sense at all. Why are you even citing a bunch of events that happened before most of us were born? They aren't relevant, and certainly not in a moral sense. [/ QUOTE ] Since you have been born, we have invaded Iraq. When your govt. stands the test of human rights, then you can point the finger at others. The U.S. seems to have this mission of identifying wrongdoers, such as what Turkey did to Armenia. We are a joke when it comes to human rights. Just look at Campean and Ramos. And let's not forget the "political prisoners" we have had locked up for four years. Start cleaning up your own house. That has all occurred since you were born, right? Ever heard of "waterboarding" |
Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Get off your high horse. [/ QUOTE ] So, because Americans killed a lot of Filipinos a hundred years ago, it's OK for the Saudis to oppress a woman? That doesn't make any sense at all. Why are you even citing a bunch of events that happened before most of us were born? They aren't relevant, and certainly not in a moral sense. [/ QUOTE ] Since you have been born, we have invaded Iraq. When your govt. stands the test of human rights, then you can point the finger at others. The U.S. seems to have this mission of identifying wrongdoers, such as what Turkey did to Armenia. We are a joke when it comes to human rights. Just look at Campean and Ramos. And let's not forget the "political prisoners" we have had locked up for four years. Start cleaning up your own house. That has all occurred since you were born, right? Ever heard of "waterboarding" [/ QUOTE ] I don't know about you, but I've never even been to Iraq, let alone invaded it. And I've certainly never waterboarded anyone. The closest thing I've ever kept to a political prisoner was my cat. Also, [ QUOTE ] Just look at Campean and Ramos. [/ QUOTE ] lol. |
Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Get off your high horse. [/ QUOTE ] So, because Americans killed a lot of Filipinos a hundred years ago, it's OK for the Saudis to oppress a woman? That doesn't make any sense at all. Why are you even citing a bunch of events that happened before most of us were born? They aren't relevant, and certainly not in a moral sense. [/ QUOTE ] Since you have been born, we have invaded Iraq. When your govt. stands the test of human rights, then you can point the finger at others. The U.S. seems to have this mission of identifying wrongdoers, such as what Turkey did to Armenia. We are a joke when it comes to human rights. Just look at Campean and Ramos. And let's not forget the "political prisoners" we have had locked up for four years. Start cleaning up your own house. That has all occurred since you were born, right? Ever heard of "waterboarding" [/ QUOTE ] I don't know about you, but I've never even been to Iraq, let alone invaded it. And I've certainly never waterboarded anyone. The closest thing I've ever kept to a political prisoner was my cat. [/ QUOTE ] I'm confused at what your point is here. Is it that only the person who actually lashes the woman should feel responsible? If that's the case, I disagree. |
Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
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Just look at Campean and Ramos. [/ QUOTE ] "LOL!" ????? They are political prisoners of the Bush legal system that sent a strong message to the border agents. 5 million undocumented immigrants have slipped thru the borders (since Bush took office) to fuel Bush's Big Business Machine with cheap labor and it was a huge victory to jail those two and deflate the morale of the agents. |
Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
She knew the rules.
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Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
[ QUOTE ]
She knew the rules. [/ QUOTE ] Right! That means the US is ok to embrace any country as an ally that makes the rules clear no matter how oppressive they are. I get it now. |
Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] She knew the rules. [/ QUOTE ] Right! That means the US is ok to embrace any country as an ally that makes the rules clear no matter how oppressive they are. I get it now. [/ QUOTE ] So, you believe our government is not oppressive to its own citizens, i.e. Patriot Act etc., and therefore you embrace the United States Government right now? Are you part of the 11% of Americans who embrass their Congress right now? |
Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] She knew the rules. [/ QUOTE ] Right! That means the US is ok to embrace any country as an ally that makes the rules clear no matter how oppressive they are. I get it now. [/ QUOTE ] I think drug laws are oppressive. But I don't break the law. |
Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] She knew the rules. [/ QUOTE ] Right! That means the US is ok to embrace any country as an ally that makes the rules clear no matter how oppressive they are. I get it now. [/ QUOTE ] So, you believe our government is not oppressive to its own citizens, i.e. Patriot Act etc., and therefore you embrace the United States Government right now? [/ QUOTE ] You're comparing the Saudi laws that oppress women to the Patriot Act? Ok very convincing argument. [ QUOTE ] Are you part of the 11% of Americans who embrass their Congress right now? [/ QUOTE ] What does that have to do with embracing a foreign country as an ally? |
Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] She knew the rules. [/ QUOTE ] Right! That means the US is ok to embrace any country as an ally that makes the rules clear no matter how oppressive they are. I get it now. [/ QUOTE ] I think drug laws are oppressive. But I don't break the law. [/ QUOTE ] So? What does that have to do with embracing the Saudis as allys? |
Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
Look we have stupid laws, they have stupid laws. We are both wrong. But why not benefit from a relationship? There laws will be the same with or without us.
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Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
So you're comparing drug laws in the U.S. and the inherent legal rights that US citizens have to the Saudi laws tha oppress and the inherent rights they have in their legal system? Again a very convincing argument.
As far as benefitting from a relationship with an oppressive government, how so? Give me ways that the U.S. benefits from it's relationship to the Saudi's? And tell me that there's not an iota of "blowback" for supporting regimes like the Saudis. We supported the Shah of Iran and basically propped him up for a long time too. Did that really benefit the U.S. in the long run? Edit: You know when Ron Paul took all of the flack he did for what he said about 9/11 I was on the side of people like Giuliani. But when I look at the ramifications of these alliances in terms of "blowback" I now understand Paul's points and I think they're right on. |
Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
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Edit: You know when Ron Paul took all of the flack he did for what he said about 9/11 I was on the side of people like Giuliani. But when I look at the ramifications of these alliances in terms of "blowback" I now understand Paul's points and I think they're right on. [/ QUOTE ] well what he said he later backed up in another interview by saying that the CIA and the actual 911 commitee (the investigation whitewash thing) said the exact same thing as he said, so how can his view not be the mainstream norm? |
Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] She knew the rules. [/ QUOTE ] Right! That means the US is ok to embrace any country as an ally that makes the rules clear no matter how oppressive they are. I get it now. [/ QUOTE ] So, you believe our government is not oppressive to its own citizens, i.e. Patriot Act etc., and therefore you embrace the United States Government right now? [/ QUOTE ] You're comparing the Saudi laws that oppress women to the Patriot Act? Ok very convincing argument. [ QUOTE ] Are you part of the 11% of Americans who embrass their Congress right now? [/ QUOTE ] What does that have to do with embracing a foreign country as an ally? [/ QUOTE ] If the U.S. were to grade every countries human rights record before entering into any type of alliance, i.e., a formal agreement or treaty, for the purpose of cooperating towards a specific purpose, we would be not have ever opened up trade with China. Before the U.S. Supreme Court, in 2005, found it unconstitutional to execute or hand down a punishment of death to a minor, the United States of America was one of only 5 countries in the world who did so. We were the only industrialized nation in the world who would hand down the death penalty to a minor. I believe that the other 4 who execute their children are: Turkey, Iran, Iraq and Pakistan. The United States is the country in the world, besides Iran and Pakistan, that has executed more than 1 minor in the last decade. Therefore, based upon your "human rights before alliance" theory, none of the industrialized nations in the world should have had anything to do with the United States, until after the Supreme Court found the practice unconstitutional. |
Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
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If the U.S. were to grade every countries human rights record before entering into any type of alliance, i.e., a formal agreement or treaty, for the purpose of cooperating towards a specific purpose, we would be not have ever opened up trade with China. [/ QUOTE ] You don't need formal agreements or treaties in order for your citizens to freely trade with whomever they please. By accepting the paradigm that you suggest above, it merely reinforces the legitimacy of "bad" regimes and makes our own country dirtier in the process (not to mention that we cede more liberty of our own). Trade is never "opened up" between governments. US trade policy merely means that self-imposed restrictions on the behavior its own citizens are lifted. I am free to buy something from Craigslist from a "bad dude" who may have stolen the property if the transaction is in my interest. But if the government negotiates a reciprocal trade agreement with this "bad dude" allowing me to trade for his stolen property (and at the same time forbidding trade with other actors it deemed as worse), then there is a tacit acceptance (some may even say endorsement) of his behavior. |
Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
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True. Good points. I wonder how slavery ended. Did it end by the slaves breaking the law and running away? Or did it end with a political movement, and an amendment to the constitution. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. . [/ QUOTE ] Slaves were wrong to run away from their masters?? Was it wrong for slaves to try to learn to read, since it was against the law? |
Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
[ QUOTE ]
Sounds like the Saudis are where the U.S. was during slavery. Let's give them time to catch up. They are exercising U.S. practices, just those practiced 150 yrs ago. [/ QUOTE ] There are thousands of people incarcerated in this country for the crime of growing a plant the government has outlawed. There are laws recently on the books (and in Texas even enforced) forbidding consensual relations between adults in their own bedrooms. You really don't need to go back 150 years for comparison. |
Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] If the U.S. were to grade every countries human rights record before entering into any type of alliance, i.e., a formal agreement or treaty, for the purpose of cooperating towards a specific purpose, we would be not have ever opened up trade with China. [/ QUOTE ] You don't need formal agreements or treaties in order for your citizens to freely trade with whomever they please. By accepting the paradigm that you suggest above, it merely reinforces the legitimacy of "bad" regimes and makes our own country dirtier in the process (not to mention that we cede more liberty of our own). Trade is never "opened up" between governments. US trade policy merely means that self-imposed restrictions on the behavior its own citizens are lifted. I am free to buy something from Craigslist from a "bad dude" who may have stolen the property if the transaction is in my interest. But if the government negotiates a reciprocal trade agreement with this "bad dude" allowing me to trade for his stolen property (and at the same time forbidding trade with other actors it deemed as worse), then there is a tacit acceptance (some may even say endorsement) of his behavior. [/ QUOTE ] Considering that oil is $90+ a barrel and considering that Saudi's are accused of funding radical terrorist activities; spending U.S. taxpayer money and blood to defend the Saudi power structure isn't much of a bargain methinks. One argument seems to be that the Saudi's are our allies and thus we should be tolerating their inhumanity. If the Saudis are an example of why the U.S. should turn a blind eye to the ally oppressing it's own people, then I'd hate to see how U.S. enemys treat the U.S. The idea of comparing the U.S. legal system and citizen'rights to the Saudis and saying they're more or less the same is either stupid or an admission that a credible argument for supporting such system can't be made. Make no mistake, when we embrace the Saudi's as an ally we're endorsing what they do more or less. I keep having this nagging question, why is Iran our enemy and the Saudi's are our allies? Doesn't make an iota of sense to me. Maybe some of the folks defending having the Saudi's as our allies could explain this to me. |
The Little Tramp....
This little tramp swayed six good Saudi men off the path of righteousness. This harlot....this temptress...this Jezebel deserves the full weight of Saudi justice.... These poor Saudi men will need a lot of counciling to get them through this ordeal. I will be praying for them...
If the USA were to adopt the wisdom the Saudis have towards women, then the USA would be a much better place... |
Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
Seriously, having lived there for a while, this type of cr@p does not surprise me. The woman in that country are not much better off than the woman under the Taliban. They take our perceived ignorance and take it to a new level.
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Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
"You don't need formal agreements or treaties in order for your citizens to freely trade with whomever they please."
WTO & NAFTA brought about trade with China, they didn't just start shipping it over here. "By accepting the paradigm that you suggest above, it merely reinforces the legitimacy of "bad" regimes and makes our own country dirtier in the process (not to mention that we cede more liberty of our own)." I agree with you, however, we don't take issue with China's lack of environmental, consumer protection & labor laws. Japan only imports goods from China because they made it clear to the Chinese government that Japan will require the right to freely inspect all aspects of the production of goods shipped from China to their country. The U.S. could have done the same, however, Big Business wasn't interested in that. I would assume the average American doesn't care either, since Wal-Mart is so FREAKIN HUGE. I also don't see how the U.S. Gov't., trading with China despite it's violations, in order to get cheap goods, or with Saudi Arabia, in order to keep a foothold in the oil rich Middle East has an effect upon my liberties. Maybe you could explain that to me. What I do see: is us being nothing more than an isolationist nation otherwise, along with (in the case of not keeping an alliance with oil nations) failing to defend our national interests. |
Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
[ QUOTE ]
I keep having this nagging question, why is Iran our enemy and the Saudi's are our allies? Doesn't make an iota of sense to me. Maybe some of the folks defending having the Saudi's as our allies could explain this to me. [/ QUOTE ] The easiest way to fix this is to stop dividing up the world into enemies and allies and just let your citizens be free to trade with whomever they please. Any other solution in effect makes your own people the enemy by imposing trade restrictions on them. |
Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
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I also don't see how the U.S. Gov't., trading with China despite it's violations, in order to get cheap goods, or with Saudi Arabia, in order to keep a foothold in the oil rich Middle East has an effect upon my liberties. Maybe you could explain that to me. [/ QUOTE ] The US govt doesn't trade anything with anybody. It's citizens trade with other people from other nations. Any trade agreement or embargo is a restriction on its own citizens who are the ones doing the trading. Think about it. If you still don't get it, go try and buy a Cuban cigar. |
Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I keep having this nagging question, why is Iran our enemy and the Saudi's are our allies? Doesn't make an iota of sense to me. Maybe some of the folks defending having the Saudi's as our allies could explain this to me. [/ QUOTE ] The easiest way to fix this is to stop dividing up the world into enemies and allies and just let your citizens be free to trade with whomever they please. Any other solution in effect makes your own people the enemy by imposing trade restrictions on them. [/ QUOTE ] Doesn't Ron Paul basically advocate dropping all the trade restrictions? I should know the facts of this better but I believe that England actually did this in the middle of the nineteenth century and realized tremendous economic growth. Correlation or causation? Don't know. The idea that trade partners don't want to kill each other seems to make a lot of sense on the surface anyway. And of course dropping trade retrictions means people are free to trade with anyone so the idea of "partners" goes out the window. Everyone's your partner [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. |
Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I keep having this nagging question, why is Iran our enemy and the Saudi's are our allies? Doesn't make an iota of sense to me. Maybe some of the folks defending having the Saudi's as our allies could explain this to me. [/ QUOTE ] The easiest way to fix this is to stop dividing up the world into enemies and allies and just let your citizens be free to trade with whomever they please. Any other solution in effect makes your own people the enemy by imposing trade restrictions on them. [/ QUOTE ] Doesn't Ron Paul basically advocate dropping all the trade restrictions? I should know the facts of this better but I believe that England actually did this in the middle of the nineteenth century and realized tremendous economic growth. Correlation or causation? Don't know. The idea that trade partners don't want to kill each other seems to make a lot of sense on the surface anyway. [/ QUOTE ] In general, libertarians are for free trade. For a lot of reasons. One of which you correctly point out. |
Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I also don't see how the U.S. Gov't., trading with China despite it's violations, in order to get cheap goods, or with Saudi Arabia, in order to keep a foothold in the oil rich Middle East has an effect upon my liberties. Maybe you could explain that to me. [/ QUOTE ] The US govt doesn't trade anything with anybody. It's citizens trade with other people from other nations. Any trade agreement or embargo is a restriction on its own citizens who are the ones doing the trading. Think about it. [/ QUOTE ] I think that without the type of restrictions Japan put on China, major corporations would allow China to pollute to their delight while the corp. reap the profits. I love RP's strict constitutionalists viewpoint, however, there is no way they could have had any idea what the world would be like today. Heck, they were dead before the Industrial Revolution which brought with it the first prominent signs of pollution. In addition, it was natural for us to stick a 12 yr old in an assembly plant back then. The U.S. Gov't doesn't give Musarraf 150 million dollars a month for his military because they love him, they give it to him because we don't have anyone else we would like having control over their nukes. Our Founding Fathers wrote their prose of intellect when the cannonball was a powerful weapon. |
Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
[ QUOTE ]
I think that without the type of restrictions Japan put on China, major corporations would allow China to pollute to their delight while the corp. reap the profits. [/ QUOTE ] If people don't want China to be polluted, they can avoid trading with Chinese companies which pollute. I don't need the US govt to forbid me to trade with anybody to make my own moral choices. I try to avoid Chinese junk products for this very reason, although I have no hard rule and will compromise this stance if I value the product/price more than the alternative. I can also avoid owning stock or buying products from American companies I disapprove of. An excample of this is the fact that I will never buy any product hotlinked from Yahoo because of my disgust over their actions in outing Chinese dissidents. I'll use their services when in my interest so long as they don't profit off me. The more we realize that our own personal choices do in fact shape the world, then the better off we will be. Assuming that government is the answer usually doesn't solve anything and in fact may make things worse because government action is highly correlated with powerful special interests. This is easy to say in theory but harder in practice. But I believe little will change for the good until we all start accepting a little more personal responsibility which comes with greater economic freedom. [ QUOTE ] The U.S. Gov't doesn't give Musarraf 150 million dollars a month for his military because they love him, they give it to him because we don't have anyone else we would like having control over their nukes. [/ QUOTE ] We as Americans would have little to fear regarding Pakistani nukes if the US govt wasn't meddling all over the world for the last 100 years. It strikes me as circular logic to use the situation caused by our meddling as justification for never-ending meddling. It's also a very inefficient approach, as supported by the fact that the US spends as much on defense as the rest of the world combined. And that doesn't even include the military aid you allude to. |
Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
"Considering that oil is $90+ a barrel and considering that Saudi's are accused of funding radical terrorist activities; spending U.S. taxpayer money and blood to defend the Saudi power structure isn't much of a bargain methinks."
According to news reports, the true value of oil is $70 per barrel. The other $20+ comes from speculation of what Bush might do to Iran now that Congress has given him the green light. Any intelligent person had to forsee this. It happened prior to Bush's dad going to war and it happened when it became apparent Bush would invade Iraq. Not after we invaded and the oil supply was reduced, but before the decision was even made to invade. "The idea of comparing the U.S. legal system and citizen'rights to the Saudis and saying they're more or less the same is either stupid or an admission that a credible argument for supporting such system can't be made." I am not comparing the U.S. legal system to that of the Saudi's. I am demonstrating how one cannot protect their own interests when they put human rights first. If you could, the industrialized nations would have washed their hands of the United States until they stopped executed minors. "I keep having this nagging question, why is Iran our enemy and the Saudi's are our allies? Doesn't make an iota of sense to me. Maybe some of the folks defending having the Saudi's as our allies could explain this to me." We don't support Iran's government because they have swore to destroy Israel, who has 250 nuclear weapons. Can you read the tealeaves? Over 80% of the Iranians do not hate Americans, despite the fact they have all had a relative, somewhere in their bloodline, who was persecuted by the Shaw after we overthrew the elected President they loved. Trust me. The United States of America is no better than Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia is worse than us in some cases, as in the 200 lashes, however, the United States, when it talks about human rights is nothing more than a sham. |
Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
"If people don't want China to be polluted, they can avoid trading with Chinese companies which pollute. I don't need the US govt to forbid me to trade with anybody to make my own moral choices. I try to avoid Chinese junk products for this very reason, although I have no hard rule and will compromise this stance if I value the product/price more than the alternative."
The majority of Americans are more interested in saving a buck than stopping pollution because they are two paychecks from bankruptcy. And you, who can afford to make the moral choice, have admitted you would not in some cases. "The more we realize that our own personal choices do in fact shape the world, then the better off we will be..... I believe little will change for the good until we all start accepting a little more personal responsibility which comes with greater economic freedom." But you will compromise that belief when you can get a much better deal by doing so, as stated above. "We as Americans would have little to fear regarding Pakistani nukes if the US govt wasn't meddling all over the world for the last 100 years. It strikes me as circular logic to use the situation caused by our meddling as justification for never-ending meddling." We taught the Pakistan Govt how to safeguard their nukes. We are supporting a government, who army leaders are "western friendly," in an effort to reduce the risk of the sale of a nuclear warhead to the wrong people. "It's also a very inefficient approach, as supported by the fact that the US spends as much on defense as the rest of the world combined. And that doesn't even include the military aid you allude to." I agree with you 100%. We need to back away from that practice, but we can't just walk away. We need to be willing to sit down with any leader and negotiate, without demanding they do this or that before we sit with them. We are ruining this country thru its rising national debt and huge defense budget. You can thank Reagan and the two Bush's for that. Every president, since WWII, has reduced the national debt (as a percentage of GNP) except those 3 presidents. The first two wiped out any gains made by the other presidents and this clown has doubled our national debt. The fact that he was reelected shows you just how stupid Americans are. They would rather rant about a woman in Saudi Arabia getting 200 lashes, than the criminal government that they are ruled by. That is what happens when someone is in the White House who will turn their back on the moral choice, when the other choice has a much greater personal benefit. Do you see the problem with having someone like you in a position of power? |
Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
[ QUOTE ]
Trust me. The United States of America is no better than Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia is worse than us in some cases, as in the 200 lashes, however, the United States, when it talks about human rights is nothing more than a sham.[/b] [/ QUOTE ] With such bias I really don't see why anyone should trust you. It is obvious you are overstating your case. The US generally scores high on the human development index. |
Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
"The United States of America is no better than Saudi Arabia."
Are we governed by a 12th century interpretation of Sharia? |
Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
[ QUOTE ]
"If people don't want China to be polluted, they can avoid trading with Chinese companies which pollute. I don't need the US govt to forbid me to trade with anybody to make my own moral choices. I try to avoid Chinese junk products for this very reason, although I have no hard rule and will compromise this stance if I value the product/price more than the alternative." The majority of Americans are more interested in saving a buck than stopping pollution because they are two paychecks from bankruptcy. And you, who can afford to make the moral choice, have admitted you would not in some cases. "The more we realize that our own personal choices do in fact shape the world, then the better off we will be..... I believe little will change for the good until we all start accepting a little more personal responsibility which comes with greater economic freedom." But you will compromise that belief when you can get a much better deal by doing so, as stated above. "We as Americans would have little to fear regarding Pakistani nukes if the US govt wasn't meddling all over the world for the last 100 years. It strikes me as circular logic to use the situation caused by our meddling as justification for never-ending meddling." We taught the Pakistan Govt how to safeguard their nukes. We are supporting a government, who army leaders are "western friendly," in an effort to reduce the risk of the sale of a nuclear warhead to the wrong people. "It's also a very inefficient approach, as supported by the fact that the US spends as much on defense as the rest of the world combined. And that doesn't even include the military aid you allude to." I agree with you 100%. We need to back away from that practice, but we can't just walk away. We need to be willing to sit down with any leader and negotiate, without demanding they do this or that before we sit with them. We are ruining this country thru its rising national debt and huge defense budget. You can thank Reagan and the two Bush's for that. Every president, since WWII, has reduced the national debt (as a percentage of GNP) except those 3 presidents. The first two wiped out any gains made by the other presidents and this clown has doubled our national debt. The fact that he was reelected shows you just how stupid Americans are. They would rather rant about a woman in Saudi Arabia getting 200 lashes, than the criminal government that they are ruled by. That is what happens when someone is in the White House who will turn their back on the moral choice, when the other choice has a much greater personal benefit. Do you see the problem with having someone like you in a position of power? [/ QUOTE ] First you chastise me for compromising my stance by buying some Chinese products rather than having a hard and fast rule against it. Then you chastise me for not compromising my stance regarding foreign policy rather than support continued aid to a foreign government for our own interests over those of the people who live under said government. Interesting take. |
Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
[ QUOTE ]
"If people don't want China to be polluted, they can avoid trading with Chinese companies which pollute. I don't need the US govt to forbid me to trade with anybody to make my own moral choices. I try to avoid Chinese junk products for this very reason, although I have no hard rule and will compromise this stance if I value the product/price more than the alternative." The majority of Americans are more interested in saving a buck than stopping pollution because they are two paychecks from bankruptcy. And you, who can afford to make the moral choice, have admitted you would not in some cases. [/ QUOTE ] So if your neighbor has a choice between bankruptcy and buying Chinese, you'd like to take away one of those options? |
Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
[ QUOTE ]
Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes [/ QUOTE ] http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2...age690875x.jpg -- I have us a very hot video for this evening, Your Majesty, an American woman getting spanked! -- Aw, Mr President, I brought with me an even hotter video with a Saudi woman from the evening news... |
Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes [/ QUOTE ] http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2...age690875x.jpg -- I have us a very hot video for this evening, Your Majesty, an American woman getting spanked! -- Aw, Mr President, I brought with me an even hotter video with a Saudi woman from the evening news... [/ QUOTE ] I was thinking about this picture when I read the report and this thread. Thanks for posting it. Your comments are amusing and there's more than a tad bit of irony there. |
Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
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"Considering that oil is $90+ a barrel and considering that Saudi's are accused of funding radical terrorist activities; spending U.S. taxpayer money and blood to defend the Saudi power structure isn't much of a bargain methinks." According to news reports, the true value of oil is $70 per barrel. The other $20+ comes from speculation of what Bush might do to Iran now that Congress has given him the green light. [/ QUOTE ] I love this kind of reasoning or lack thereof. You should be able to make a fortune by shorting oil then. I'm willing to bet you have no position whatsoever. [ QUOTE ] Any intelligent person had to forsee this. It happened prior to Bush's dad going to war and it happened when it became apparent Bush would invade Iraq. Not after we invaded and the oil supply was reduced, but before the decision was even made to invade. [/ QUOTE ] Then I'm sure mad a killing when oil was around $60 A barell in Novermber,2006. [ QUOTE ] "The idea of comparing the U.S. legal system and citizen'rights to the Saudis and saying they're more or less the same is either stupid or an admission that a credible argument for supporting such system can't be made." I am not comparing the U.S. legal system to that of the Saudi's. I am demonstrating how one cannot protect their own interests when they put human rights first. If you could, the industrialized nations would have washed their hands of the United States until they stopped executed minors. [/ QUOTE ] WOW, but I shouldn't be surprised given the above. I would normally say that you're just trolling at this point as you're not the least bit serious. However, I'm almost certain you are given the PM you sent me the other day. [ QUOTE ] "I keep having this nagging question, why is Iran our enemy and the Saudi's are our allies? Doesn't make an iota of sense to me. Maybe some of the folks defending having the Saudi's as our allies could explain this to me." We don't support Iran's government because they have swore to destroy Israel, who has 250 nuclear weapons. Can you read the tealeaves? Over 80% of the Iranians do not hate Americans, despite the fact they have all had a relative, somewhere in their bloodline, who was persecuted by the Shaw after we overthrew the elected President they loved. Trust me. The United States of America is no better than Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia is worse than us in some cases, as in the 200 lashes, however, the United States, when it talks about human rights is nothing more than a sham. [/ QUOTE ] I'll pass on the "trust me" part. We'll just have to agree to disagree [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. |
Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
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Quote: Quote: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes -- I have us a very hot video for this evening, Your Majesty, an American woman getting spanked! -- Aw, Mr President, I brought with me an even hotter video with a Saudi woman from the evening news... I was thinking about this picture when I read the report and this thread. Thanks for posting it. Your comments are amusing and there's more than a tad bit of irony there. [/ QUOTE ] me too. I think they kiss as a greeting too in this clip. |
Saudis Defend the Punishment
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