Re: KK check-raised on an TTx flop
 

I think he had a middle pair, and with the minny raise he was testing the field.....

Re: KK check-raised on an TTx flop
 

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I agree that calling is the suck and so is folding but dont you think raising and trying to get it in will fold out those random 77-JJ?

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Yeah but this doesnt really matter because its pretty unlikely that 77-JJ will VPIP again on later streets after the flop action, so its not about "not folding them out", its about getting max value. If they are folding they are folding, there's no point giving them a free card

Re: KK check-raised on an TTx flop
 

The problem is he rarely has JJ and QQ so his pairs do consist of medium ones mostly.

Re: KK check-raised on an TTx flop
 

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The problem is he rarely has JJ and QQ so his pairs do consist of medium ones mostly.

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Yeah but if he folds 77 on the flop he folds it on the turn and if he calls it on the flop he calls it on the turn so the net difference between betting and checking is that we give him a free card

Re: KK check-raised on an TTx flop
 

Why do you think that though? Many times people will make this move and fire turn again with most their range. He could easily think he is protecting his pair or choosing to continue this bluff or semi bluff. I dont think he will vpip anymore money in with mid pockets if we raise him but I dont see why he wouldnt at least bet the turn again with most of the hands he does this with on the flop. Thats why I call the turn bet more than likely and fold to a river bet. He would have to be a maniac or really strong to fire f/t/r.

Re: KK check-raised on an TTx flop
 

I think it's more likely that he'll get it in with a mid-pair on the flop. This is because any overcard to his pair is a scare card. This means we should raise the flop if enough of his range contains a pocket pair.

I'm raising this flop

Re: KK check-raised on an TTx flop
 

Dont mean to hijack, but I was just about to post a question with the same situation. Here is how it played out for me.

6 people no reads I just sat down. $25NL
villain has $33
I have $25

UTG MP fold
Hero (CO) dealt A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] raises to $1
BTN folds
SB folds
BB calls

Flop
J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
BB checks, Hero bets $2, BB raises to $4, Hero raises to $10, BB shoves, Hero folds. BB shows Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

I liked a smallish raises that doesnt really commit me if I get reraised. I knew that raise would give me all the info I needed and I dont really lose a lot if he shoves over the top. I liked that better than just calling down. I wanted to know on that flop where I stood and I found out by raising. I hate calling in spots like this. I may start to mix in calling here with the arguments yall have given for it but I really hate not having any new information on villains hand.