Re: 30/60 turn spot
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
PokerBob--

Anyone who won't fold any pair here will have all sorts of no-pair hands here. Why does he need to put us on an 8 to fold 33 or K5 or 62s, anyway? After all, he's either a terrible hand-range analyst, or he knows that it's terrible to have a narrow betting range in Hero's spot.

--Nate

[/ QUOTE ]

in my experience, guys who flop pairs don't fold them.

[/ QUOTE ]

PokerBob--

(A) I think that statement is nowhere near true.

(B) As I've said a few times, he doesn't need to fold a pair for the bet to be correct.

--Nate

[/ QUOTE ]

ok.

[/ QUOTE ]

PokerBob--

Also, let me say again that an excellent player literally thought that any suggestion of checking in this spot had to be a joke.

--Nate

[/ QUOTE ]

ok. is he barreling the river as well when a red 2 comes?

Re: 30/60 turn spot
 

[ QUOTE ]
ok. is he barreling the river as well when a red 2 comes?

[/ QUOTE ]

PB--

I don't know. It's strongly opponent-dependent. I'll ask him when I get a chance. Certainly a turn bet is better than a check whether or not you plan to bluff the river.

--Nate

Re: 30/60 turn spot
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
ok. is he barreling the river as well when a red 2 comes?

[/ QUOTE ]

PB--

I don't know. It's strongly opponent-dependent. I'll ask him when I get a chance. Certainly a turn bet is better than a check whether or not you plan to bluff the river.

--Nate

[/ QUOTE ]

well, i think you and your buddy are dead wrong, so let's just leave it at that.

fwiw, if he is betting the turn, checking the river would be horrible.

Re: 30/60 turn spot
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
ok. is he barreling the river as well when a red 2 comes?

[/ QUOTE ]

PB--

I don't know. It's strongly opponent-dependent. I'll ask him when I get a chance. Certainly a turn bet is better than a check whether or not you plan to bluff the river.

--Nate

[/ QUOTE ]

well, i think you and your buddy are dead wrong, so let's just leave it at that.

fwiw, if he is betting the turn, checking the river would be horrible.

[/ QUOTE ]

PB--

Fair enough. By the way, multi-ninja-editing aside, you've been very polite in this thread, so thanks. I hope I've been equally so.

--Nate

Re: 30/60 turn spot
 

[ QUOTE ]
But by checking the turn we lose value vs. b) and d) and when he donks the river do we call with A high? The 3 bet is obviously horrible but I bet the turn all day long w the nut draw 2 overs and gs.

[/ QUOTE ]

which bet has more value for us: the bet that we place and gets called on the turn, or the bet that we put in on the river when we call after the turn checks through?

Re: 30/60 turn spot
 

I just saw this thread. I bet the turn, call the c/r, and river a flush.

Re: 30/60 turn spot
 

[ QUOTE ]
I just saw this thread. I bet the turn, call the c/r, and river a flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is just awful. if you're gonna river a flush, 3bet the goddamn turn.

Re: 30/60 turn spot
 

betting the turn here is fine i dont know wtf we would check for when we can actually get a better hand to fold somewhat realistically and we have like 12ish basically nut outs if not. 3 betting after getting c/r however is of course horrendous bc you have just cost yourself 4 bets pretty much guaranteed to draw to a flush that should have cost 1-2 bets to draw to.

if villain is never folding a pair then fine check turn but honestly this is like one of the few spots in lhe where people fold a pair somewhat often so we may as well take advantage of it. also in live games we are getting c/r by draw here like never.

*edit*
if we check turn then calling a river bet is horrible. the pot is tiny and we have to give him credit for peeling the flop with no pair no draw on a coordinated board.

i also dont understand pbob's "if you bet turn you have to bet river". most people that stubbornly call turn again with 1 pair no redraw will insta payoff on river. some will fold but they are fairly rare. if they had worse flush draw and hit a pair that they might have folded then oh well.

Re: 30/60 turn spot
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
PokerBob--

Anyone who won't fold any pair here will have all sorts of no-pair hands here. Why does he need to put us on an 8 to fold 33 or K5 or 62s, anyway? After all, he's either a terrible hand-range analyst, or he knows that it's terrible to have a narrow betting range in Hero's spot.

--Nate

[/ QUOTE ]

in my experience, guys who flop pairs don't fold them.

[/ QUOTE ]

PokerBob--

(A) I think that statement is nowhere near true.

(B) As I've said a few times, he doesn't need to fold a pair for the bet to be correct.

--Nate

[/ QUOTE ]

ok.

[/ QUOTE ]

PokerBob--

Also, let me say again that an excellent player literally thought that any suggestion of checking in this spot had to be a joke.

--Nate

[/ QUOTE ]

an excellent player i spoke to said he bets this turn just about never. even spewmaster schneids said he only bets it 33-50% of the time. your buddy clearly needs to reevaluate a few things.

Re: 30/60 turn spot
 

[ QUOTE ]
not sure what is worse, betting the turn or 3-betting the turn. both actions were horrible.

[/ QUOTE ]

um... did the OP change the hand? It was a rainbow flop when I made my post.