Re: 50nl, I need exp with deep stack play
 

with my post I was referring to the river. If he checks behind on the river it doesn't matter anymore if his hand is transparent. for the turn you are right.

Re: 50nl, I need exp with deep stack play
 

Sorry my fault misread your post [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I was grunching then edited my post to include your quote after reading the replies.

Re: 50nl, I need exp with deep stack play
 

I'm thinking bet/fold turn and check/call river.

Re: 50nl, I need exp with deep stack play
 

I think your action depends on:
1) your cbetting tendencies. if you cbet a lot, your flop bet doesn't mean much so he may look you up with all sorts of hands
2) how often do you 2nd barrel with air
3) how often does villain float

if you cbet a lot, rarely 2nd barrel and villain is capable of floating, I think b/f is the way to go. On the river I think c/c is the way to go.

Re: 50nl, I need exp with deep stack play
 

c/c turn c/c river.

To a semi capable villain this looks like we whiffed the flop so we are more likely to get monies from a worse hand.

If we bet/fold turn i) we can get bluffed off this hand ii) we fold more hands we are ahead of that we can milk a little.

Quite a a bit hangs on your dbl barrel frequency as to whether villain will seea turn bet as a bluff (and thus raise you) or as a value bet and act appropriately.

We gots good SD value and even if we call pot pot turn and river we aren't losing THAT much when behind (considering our equity vs his total range) - obv if we improve then a river c/r is sexy time I think.

It's likely that if villain is bluffing then he'll bet the turn as a float and check through the river.

The downside is we give villain infinite drawing odds, our reverse implied odds are quite high and we get no protection but draws miss more often than they hit and we have a few outs ourself.

betfold c/c gives us a little protection vs draws and might net a little more if villain flopped TPworse kicker.

BUT if villain is capable (the jurys out on most 50NL villains) he is raising a turn bet here almost always. A turn raise from Villain is VERY strong because we then have to think about the river bet and how big it might be and how committed we want to be to our one pair hand. (See "the hammer of future betting" in NLTAP) If villain makes a chunky raise he is basically saying "I have position and if you want to take this to the felt then you got to call this bet AND put the rest of your stack in on the river" thats basically about the strongest move you can pull playing NL poker. c/c c/c removes that possibility and gets our hand with SD value to SD cheap so that hopefully we can drag a nice pot.

Deep stacked - position is like 1000000000x more important - (and it's pretty dam important already)

Re: 50nl, I need exp with deep stack play
 

Against a TAG opponent everyone is always saying to 'check for pot control', because they won't call with worse. I think we are giving our opponents too much credit. We should just keep betting for value. If they know you are a competent player they should realize that you can bet with a lot of hands too. They will make their hero calls.

Plus, betting the turn gives your 2nd barrels more credit. Mostly, the only time you are firing 2 barrels is when you are bluffing or have a monster. Do it with marginal hands too. This makes you much tougher to play against and frustrates your opponents, if they have to constantly fold, which means they will look you up lighter.

Bet turn and bet river too!