Re: Over-bet bluff shove...250bb deep.
 

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why would you shove for value vs a weak hand instead of bet like 75% pot?

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This is a good point...but I'm not sure if villain's thinking that way. And FWIW, I make over-bets like this for value all the time.

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me too, but the reason you valueshove AK or Tx here is that villain will sometimes think 'wtf, why would he overbet a strong hand' and calls with AJ

you can't both valueshove Tx here and overbet bluff imho*

either he calls light (Ax) making valueshoving a good play, or he doesn't call light and valueshoving is a bad play

i agree with you that valueshoving here is sexy and a good play, so this means that bluffing is a bad play because he's not folding enough ... maybe your last 3 valueshoves in spot s like this didn't get called, but variance is no reason to start making overbet bluffs that have to work 70% of the time [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

*the only reason you should do both is for balancing, but balancing is hugely overrated (in spots like) this @ small stakes imho ... vs how many regulars do you get to like 3+ showdowns in situations like this? exactly :P

Re: Over-bet bluff shove...250bb deep.
 

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*the only reason you should do both is for balancing, but balancing is hugely overrated (in spots like) this @ small stakes imho ... vs how many regulars do you get to like 3+ showdowns in situations like this? exactly :P

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Actually, at this particular site, the player base for 1/2 is really small. I play w/ these same regs all day everyday. Even if I do get snapped off here, it's still really good for meta-game (well that's my excuse at least). [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Over-bet bluff shove...250bb deep.
 

i don't think you have to balance (in spots like this because they don't occur often imho, i hope you don't run 250bb bluffs all the time [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]) vs a tagfish regular anyway, he's not going to exploit you (by tightening up his calling range because you only valueshove) so why bluff?

either he calls too much and you should valueshove (and not bluff), or he folds enough and you should bluff (and not valueshove, although bluffsizing is another thing that can be discussed) ... i don't think you show down enough too make villain really change his calling range (and get enough opportunities to profit from that in the future)

imho tagfish regulars can't see the difference between a lot of spots ... no need to push here for metagame, just shoving your flushdraw+over on a flop where you have foldequity and he calls with top pair will give you the 'lol he's a maniac' image you want IMHO


*edit* i know that, theoreticly, our shoves here should always include a certain% of bluffs. but i think investing your time in figuring out what ratio of bluffs to valueshoves is optimal in a 250bb pot/spot like this vs a tagfish is an inefficient use of time

Re: Over-bet bluff shove...250bb deep.
 

Like it, he probably doesn't have a boat unless he has exactly the T

Re: Over-bet bluff shove...250bb deep.
 

sexy. You're getting called here very rarely.

Re: Over-bet bluff shove...250bb deep.
 

I think it's fine and agree 100% that the shove carries a LOT more fe than a pot sized bet here.

Re: Over-bet bluff shove...250bb deep.
 

if ur going to fire a 3rd time all in is your best option. No point in overbeting if youre only gonna overbet by 25-50. Also I think if you make a 2/3psb or less you are far more likely to get looked up. The fact that you are both deep I like it even more.

Re: Over-bet bluff shove...250bb deep.
 

villain can easily put you on air, but hes still not calling that shove. Most tagfish dont follow through with their reads, especially for 200BB's on the river making a hero call with one pair.
Also that T is a great card for you becasue now he cant call with A6/A8/68 if he was slowplaying them on the flop and turn. So i like

Re: Over-bet bluff shove...250bb deep.
 

yeah there is no way he is calling with one pair. The only hand he can possibly have that will call you is AT, and he doesn't have AT.