Re: Every street debatable
 

If we c/c the flop, we have to c/r a turn with a 7 imo. The 7 is a scary card, he folds very often a nine outers. Moreover if he 3 bet, we have 0 or 2 outs and we can make a clean fold.

Re: Every street debatable
 

Why are we not check calling the river as played against a 2.3 and giving him a chance to bet his busted draw or his A?

Re: Every street debatable
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why are we not check calling the river as played against a 2.3 and giving him a chance to bet his busted draw or his A?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because he 3bets most draws on the flop & calls with his A all day.

Re: Every street debatable
 

Against most lags with a c/r on the flop, it looks too suspicious. On this river nina can have a busted draw and he can make a crying call with ace high.

A raise on the river is very unlikely. c/c<b/c, but it is not obvious c/f<b/c.

Re: Every street debatable
 

Fold PF? 86o is hardly a powerhouse! As played just call him down and let him bluff off chips ace high. On the river he's ahead.

Re: Every street debatable
 

No way I am folding preflop

I play 85o and 64o here

84o and I'd be torn.

Re: Every street debatable
 

[ QUOTE ]
No way I am folding preflop

I play 85o and 64o here

84o and I'd be torn.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/2193/atchy2.jpg

Re: Every street debatable
 

Flop c/r is standard. It puts pressure on a button raiser w/a wide variety of hands that hate this flop. How do you feel w/QTo no heart? How bout AT no heart? You've gotta c/r here to balance when you will c/r w/a K or strait draw. On the river, I prefer to cc or b/f. Once he raises the river, AK and other good kings need to be put back into his hand range. I take this line all the time against tags in position.

Re: Every street debatable
 

[ QUOTE ]
this guy is going to charge himself to draw on the turn.

i just c/c down, and With that turn and river, i'm not folding.

As played, you are probably smoked on the river, but I can't see how you can fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

This whole thread is sick. If I was forced to draw up a better example of when to run the "Check/Call Down" play I would be hard-pressed to beat out this hand.

Anybody who doesnt understand why C/Cing down unless the board gets really bad, is the play here needs to re-evaluate their game. I would start by getting back to the basics and opening up their dusty "Theory of Poker" books to pages 270-272.

For those like TheHip and Palomino who figured out that C/C down is the play here, you should pat yourselves on the back.

If I ever write a book on holdem this will be the type of situation I will use to illustrate when to apply the C/C down play. Here we have the perfect type of hand, against the perfect type of player to run this play so lets not check/raise the flop and screw this up.

Re: Every street debatable
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
this guy is going to charge himself to draw on the turn.

i just c/c down, and With that turn and river, i'm not folding.

As played, you are probably smoked on the river, but I can't see how you can fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

This whole thread is sick. If I was forced to draw up a better example of when to run the "Check/Call Down" play I would be hard-pressed to beat out this hand.

Anybody who doesnt understand why C/Cing down unless the board gets really bad, is the play here needs to re-evaluate their game. I would start by getting back to the basics and opening up their dusty "Theory of Poker" books to pages 270-272.

For those like TheHip and Palomino who figured out that C/C down is the play here, you should pat yourselves on the back.

If I ever write a book on holdem this will be the type of situation I will use to illustrate when to apply the C/C down play. Here we have the perfect type of hand, against the perfect type of player to run this play so lets not check/raise the flop and screw this up.

[/ QUOTE ]

not trying to debate you, but how do you know the value of inducing bluffs on this board outweighs the value of him calling down with A high or lower pp + the value of not letting him take free cards? does it just come from experience or is there some way to see that?

on a related note, there's stox's c/r c/c c/c line.