Re: need stars 25/50NL datamine
 

Yeah, I'm happy to talk to the admins. It'd make modding easier to just say "Anything that breaks the PokerSite's T&C breaks 2p2's T&C." Course, it'd also be pretty easy to say "Anything that doesn't break actual laws is ok." [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I'll let you know what I find out. (If you'd rather have an AtF thread on it, that's of course fine, too.)
-Sam

Re: need stars 25/50NL datamine
 

Awesome [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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(If you'd rather have an AtF thread on it, that's of course fine, too.)


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TBH, I'd rather not, personally. I'd much prefer it was handled in house between mods / admins. An ATF thread could be valuable to canvass opinion should a consensus be unreachable.

Thing is, I sorta consider this my "home" forum, so I care what goes on here (in addition to the smaller NL forums), but my post count here is like 5X the strat forums.

I'd much prefer it this not become the place to discuss T&C breaking. In a similar to how so called "piracy" is not tolerated in CTH.

I'd like it when this forum is *the* place known for the cutting edge of legit poker software development [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

dave.

Re: need stars 25/50NL datamine
 

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Thing is, I sorta consider this my "home" forum, so I care what goes on here (in addition to the smaller NL forums), but my post count here is like 5X the strat forums.

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Yep, I know how you feel. I too kinda feel like the software forum is my 2p2 "home". [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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I'd like it when this forum is *the* place known for the cutting edge of legit poker software development [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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Here is a copy of my reply to dave's PM notifying me about the OT discussion in this thread:

Stigmata's argument that we can't really criticize scammers/botters/cheats if we still allow "mild" forms of breaking the T&Cs seems pretty solid to me.

I've also done the same as you when it comes to breaking the T&C - I'll push them if it doesn't specifically say anything against it (eg: FPHG), but I won't release something that outright breaks the T&C of a site (eg: a Stars dataminer app). I usually try to make a post warning people who ask about stuff that is breaking the T&C, but I don't really try to convince them that it's "bad" and will usually still answer their questions.

I also get people PM-ing/emailing me with dubious bot-related questions sometimes, but generally I answer them making it clear I support the creation of poker-AI, but not the use of bots on real money tables. I was interested in chess-AI years before poker and I can't really see any difference between poker-AI and chess-AI in terms of what is ethically "correct". Both are great tools to help you learn about the game and study situations offline, but using AI while you play is cheating and hence my dislike for all the "realtime EV advisor apps" and Stars/FT policy of allowing them atm.

I think overall the best rule for the software forum would be: "Anything software-related that breaks the PokerSite's T&C breaks 2p2's T&C." - this would then exclude alot of the "silly" rules such as not being allowed to publicly criticize the sites and/or play as a "professional", etc.

Juk [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: need stars 25/50NL datamine
 

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Stigmata says it best:

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We really shouldn't condone breaking T&Cs of any site. It's pretty difficult to maintain any moral high ground over scammers/botters/cheats etc if you are breaking the rules. I really don't see how breaking one T&C is OK, but breaking another is wrong.


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Say for example Ray Bonnert(sp?) got his "Honest Hold'em" (o whatever i was called) site up and running. Would the existence of a site that openly allowed botting / teaming etc. then mean 2p2 Software forum should allow discussions of such on PokerStars / FTP etc.?

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I think it should be "site-specific". If something is allowed on one site then discussion about it in relation to that site should be fine, but if it is against another site's T&C then discussion about it in relation to that site would be a no-no.

Juk [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: need stars 25/50NL datamine
 

What about sharing just datamined hands? Would that be ok for those who think it's not ok to share full databases?

Re: need stars 25/50NL datamine
 

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What about sharing just datamined hands? Would that be ok for those who think it's not ok to share full databases?

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It's definitely more border-line situation than sharing databases with hole cards that are not available to the observing public.

But I still wonder if PS would tolerate a real hands-exchange going on this site. I can't imagine this could increase into something like this .