Re: Freewill
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I define free will as the belief that, although I just made choice C, I could have made choice !C.

In other words, I define "free will" as an experiential label, not a metaphysical property. This definition solves the "problem" of free will by converting it to a tautological psychologism.

[/ QUOTE ]

take yourself less seriously?

[/ QUOTE ]

Subfallen, to some of us lesser mortals, it is difficult to understand what you are saying at times due to the language you use.

This is in no way a slur or attack on you, more a compliment i suppose, but this is not the first post you have made that has left me thinking 'WTF?'

As I have already said, this highlights my lack of vocabulary, and is not supposed to be negative towards you in any way. I just thought it might help you to understand the reply you recieved.

Re: Freewill
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"Any thoughts on the implications of free will not existing? "

It makes it awfully hard to blame people for things they had no choice in doing.

[/ QUOTE ]
True and I think that's a good thing. Less hate = good. Of course we will still want to take measures to prevent them from harming us so punishment is still perfectly viable as a deterrent.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please elaborate.

In the above example, we have no choice regarding what measures we take....

Re: Freewill
 

[ QUOTE ]
Subfallen, to some of us lesser mortals, it is difficult to understand what you are saying at times due to the language you use.

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] Part of the problem may be that I haven't read anything but philosophy for 3-4 months now. Here's a sample from what I'm reading at the moment, Heidegger's Being and Time (Macquarrie & Robinson translation):

[ QUOTE ]
Primordially 'truth' means the same as 'being-disclosive', as a way in which Dasein behaves. From this comes the derivative signification: 'the uncoveredness of entities'. Correspondingly, 'certainty', in its primordial signification, is tantamount to 'Being-certain', as a kind of Being which belongs to Dasein. However, in a derivative signification, any entity of which Dasein can be certain will also get called something 'certain'.

[/ QUOTE ]

And that's an unusually concrete analysis for Heidegger. On the average he stays more abstract, along the lines of:

[ QUOTE ]
The character of understanding as projection is constitutive for Being-in-the-world with regard to the disclosedness of its existentially constitutive state-of-Being by which the factical potentiality-for-Being gets its leeway.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Freewill
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"Any thoughts on the implications of free will not existing? "

It makes it awfully hard to blame people for things they had no choice in doing.

[/ QUOTE ]
True and I think that's a good thing. Less hate = good. Of course we will still want to take measures to prevent them from harming us so punishment is still perfectly viable as a deterrent.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please elaborate.

In the above example, we have no choice regarding what measures we take....

[/ QUOTE ]

we always have a choice, it's just not free.

Re: Freewill
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Subfallen, to some of us lesser mortals, it is difficult to understand what you are saying at times due to the language you use.

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] Part of the problem may be that I haven't read anything but philosophy for 3-4 months now. Here's a sample from what I'm reading at the moment, Heidegger's Being and Time (Macquarrie & Robinson translation):

[ QUOTE ]
Primordially 'truth' means the same as 'being-disclosive', as a way in which Dasein behaves. From this comes the derivative signification: 'the uncoveredness of entities'. Correspondingly, 'certainty', in its primordial signification, is tantamount to 'Being-certain', as a kind of Being which belongs to Dasein. However, in a derivative signification, any entity of which Dasein can be certain will also get called something 'certain'.

[/ QUOTE ]

And that's an unusually concrete analysis for Heidegger. On the average he stays more abstract, along the lines of:

[ QUOTE ]
The character of understanding as projection is constitutive for Being-in-the-world with regard to the disclosedness of its existentially constitutive state-of-Being by which the factical potentiality-for-Being gets its leeway.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

You nailed it.

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Freewill
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"Any thoughts on the implications of free will not existing? "

It makes it awfully hard to blame people for things they had no choice in doing.

[/ QUOTE ]
True and I think that's a good thing. Less hate = good. Of course we will still want to take measures to prevent them from harming us so punishment is still perfectly viable as a deterrent.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please elaborate.

In the above example, we have no choice regarding what measures we take....

[/ QUOTE ]

we always have a choice, it's just not free.

[/ QUOTE ]
Right. Even if we have no free will we still must engage in deliberation and rational decision making to accomplish our wants and needs. In a sense we must act as if we have free will, because we have the experience of it. But we cannot change our wants (i.e. what motivates us). We might have a desire to change our desires and that is not impossible, but we cannot change the totality of our desire system at any given moment. Our actions would be 100% predictable to someone who knew everything there was to know about the present, even many years in advance. But we cannot not act as if we have free will. The difference I think the thought that there is no free will can make is, as I've said, giving us less reason to hate others. I hope that makes some sort of sense.

Re: Freewill
 

It is a paradoxical arguement.

If we believe there is no free will, then our feelings towards everything are irrelevant, as our actions are pre-determined.

Man.

I want to type more, but don't think I have the choice to do it.

Re: Freewill
 

[ QUOTE ]
It is a paradoxical arguement.

If we believe there is no free will, then our feelings towards everything are irrelevant, as our actions are pre-determined.

Man.

I want to type more, but don't think I have the choice to do it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes you do.

Re: Freewill
 

i dont see much room for freewill. it might exist though, and i kind of hope it does.

but as a few have mentioned, we still have to act 'as though' it exists, since we have decisions to make and lives to live.

Re: Freewill
 

[ QUOTE ]
It is a paradoxical arguement.

If we believe there is no free will, then our feelings towards everything are irrelevant, as our actions are pre-determined.

[/ QUOTE ]
Pre-determined != irrelevant. Otherwise no one would watch films or read stories.