Re: 100nl... QQ hu, oop, and deep... SIGH
 

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this is exactly my thinking. how is it that so many people can have such different ideas about this spot. most are saying the opposite of get it all in and thinking too defensively.

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I agree with LJ in that we're good here the vast majority of the time, but the question is one of walking the fine line between getting the most value out of hands like TT-JJ and A9 (which I think are pretty much the only hands in villain's range where he calls 3 streets of value bets) versus playing it somewhat more cautiously and checking the turn to avoid getting it all in when absolutely crushed.

Like I said before, I like leading on the turn more if the second card wasn't a 9 where the only hand in a standard villain's calling range would be A9 (and that's a pretty generous calling range). I guess my hesitation with leading the turn is how to respond to a push, because folding seems weak but calling also seems bad because his range usually crushes us.

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While our range that villain has that gets us 3 streets of value (A9, TT-JJ, and other crap) there are a TON of hands we can get value with on the turn. K97 with 2 to a flush and the turn bringing a double suited board makes for a hojillion draws.

Fwiw, I'm c/calling most rivers.

Re: 100nl... QQ hu, oop, and deep... SIGH
 

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this is exactly my thinking. how is it that so many people can have such different ideas about this spot. most are saying the opposite of get it all in and thinking too defensively.

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I agree with LJ in that we're good here the vast majority of the time, but the question is one of walking the fine line between getting the most value out of hands like TT-JJ and A9 (which I think are pretty much the only hands in villain's range where he calls 3 streets of value bets) versus playing it somewhat more cautiously and checking the turn to avoid getting it all in when absolutely crushed.

Like I said before, I like leading on the turn more if the second card wasn't a 9 where the only hand in a standard villain's calling range would be A9 (and that's a pretty generous calling range). I guess my hesitation with leading the turn is how to respond to a push, because folding seems weak but calling also seems bad because his range usually crushes us.

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While our range that villain has that gets us 3 streets of value (A9, TT-JJ, and other crap) there are a TON of hands we can get value with on the turn. K97 with 2 to a flush and the turn bringing a double suited board makes for a hojillion draws.

Fwiw, I'm c/calling most rivers.

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Ok, that makes a lot of sense. It does seem like betting the turn and checking the river is a better line than the converse. Are you calling a push on the turn LJ?

Re: 100nl... QQ hu, oop, and deep... SIGH
 

Like I said, that's totally read dependent. I'm a pretty aggressive player, and villain's line makes little sense for having any sort of reasonable K (I'm much more afraid of something like K8 pushing than say KJ/KQ/AK/KT). Against most opponents I will certainly call a push.

Re: 100nl... QQ hu, oop, and deep... SIGH
 

What makes flop standard? Depending on the level of thinking, checking, betting less or betting more on the flop can all be standard- either with this hand or your entire range.

Re: 100nl... QQ hu, oop, and deep... SIGH
 

kool... thanks for the replies. some very good stuff here. ill try to post some more in this forum as it seems their r some good posters here.

ill reveal the results tomorow for n e one who is curious

Re: 100nl... QQ hu, oop, and deep... SIGH
 

with that description ov villain, I think he showed AK or TT,JJ.

Re: 100nl... QQ hu, oop, and deep... SIGH
 

well i went for a turn crai after his bet thinking like most of u all said that i was in fact well ahead of his range and that he could call with a ton. so he snap called with KJ. meh lol