Re: help settle debate on timing tells
 

generally i pay attention to timing tells against weak to average players, and try to avoid them against good to very good players. i know when i play i do random pauses or quick actions, and i'm sure lots of other HSNL players do as well.

that said, if this is an averageish player, then i have a few points. you probably don't need to be making 150bb+ bluffs against mediocre competition to win. yeah, the bet might have positive expectation, but playing this type of style when you don't need to to beat a player is one of the reasons some HU players go crazy. (sorry, off topic)

against weaker to average players, pauses usually mean they are considering a number of options. the quick call is almost always a mediocre hand where as the pause really isn't a reliable indicator except for that they probably don't have a very mediocre 2nd or 3rd pair type hand, because they would have likely folded it quickly.

tc

Re: help settle debate on timing tells
 

I really, really want to troll this thread because of the [censored] you've talked to me about my tells, but whatever.

Quick calls - draw or weak hand
Quick checks - going for a c/r
Slow checks - hoping you check
Slow calls - could have anything really

Re: help settle debate on timing tells
 

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I really, really want to troll this thread because of the [censored] you've talked to me about my tells, but whatever.

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lol, i admit ive talked [censored] to you but the having tells on those call downs i made were jokes, i just thought i was good

Re: help settle debate on timing tells
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I really, really want to troll this thread because of the [censored] you've talked to me about my tells, but whatever.

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lol, i admit ive talked [censored] to you but the having tells on those call downs i made were jokes, i just thought i was good

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oh i know

Re: help settle debate on timing tells
 

[ QUOTE ]
I really, really want to troll this thread because of the [censored] you've talked to me about my tells, but whatever.

Quick calls - draw or weak hand
Quick checks - going for a c/r
Slow checks - hoping you check
Slow calls - could have anything really

[/ QUOTE ]


The bolded two are very reliable for limit flop games, especially the rapid check going for a check-raise. I've made some sick checks behind based on this.

Re: help settle debate on timing tells
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I really, really want to troll this thread because of the [censored] you've talked to me about my tells, but whatever.

Quick calls - draw or weak hand
Quick checks - going for a c/r
Slow checks - hoping you check
Slow calls - could have anything really

[/ QUOTE ]


The bolded two are very reliable for limit flop games, especially the rapid check going for a check-raise. I've made some sick checks behind based on this.

[/ QUOTE ]

disagree with the bolded things

Re: help settle debate on timing tells
 

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Who cares. The river is a bad card for you to bluff after him calling that turn bet.

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Only if the villain is completely retarded.

Re: help settle debate on timing tells
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Who cares. The river is a bad card for you to bluff after him calling that turn bet.

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Only if the villain is completely retarded.

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to clarify, im not saying this is a good/bad card to bluff, Im just saying it is definitely not a card I'm like WOW ITS RIDIC TO BLUFF THIS RIVER. Seems like a reasonable river to put someone to a decision if you want to bluff.

Re: help settle debate on timing tells
 

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ok so this hand just happened and was talking about it with someone

No-Limit Hold'em, $10 BB (2 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($2301.91)
Button ($2225)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $35</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $120</font>, Button calls $85.

Flop: ($240) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $200</font>, Button calls $200.

Turn: ($640) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $520</font>, Button calls $520.

River: ($1680) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets 1461.91 </font>

they thought a while before calling turn. i pushed because i figured this mean they didnt really like their hand (like maybe they had 68 and were counting odds?). on the other hand, when a bet is on someone people usually say the person is weighing his options of calling vs raising, which would mean the person probably has a strong hand, i would think.

the opponent wasn't spectacular or anything, so no idea if he is trying to level me with time use.

any thoughts on bluffing by using timing tells?? ty

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for the record, back in the old days on party I used to INSTACALL flop and turn bets with sets because I felt like it looked weak to do it. these days, I think putting a blanket statement out there about 'timing tells' is silly. Generally when they insta-call the all in on the river for 3x the pot its bad though.

Re: help settle debate on timing tells
 

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Generally when they insta-call the all in on the river for 3x the pot its bad though.

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NOTED