Re: KK vs fish, ~190bb deep
 

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It is a big raise. Even when they raise, passive players raise less imo... Never had someone pot size raise me with these stats in my life tbh Could that be a betting tell?

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FYI at sites with the bet pot button, like full tilt, it is common even for fish to mash the button.

Re: KK vs fish, ~190bb deep
 

I wouldn't 3-bet because he's just so passive. His 2-bet range on this flop is probably miles ahead of KsKd. And I sincerely doubt you have any folding equity.
Calling and folding are both pretty close. I call though...
Fold to any further significant bets on blanks.

Re: KK vs fish, ~190bb deep
 

folding flop wouldn't be awful, honestly. we have a pretty hand against a terrible opponent, but a hand that has relatively poor strength on this board against this opponent if the action heats up.

i can't really peg the optimal pot size that i'd want to play here, but it's nowhere near 400bb and trying to showdown for less/avoid bad cards/get paid when ahead just isn't gonna happen.

Re: KK vs fish, ~190bb deep
 

$79

Re: KK vs fish, ~190bb deep
 

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I'm pretty sure a guy with these stats will just call a 3-bet with the naked A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] so I'm pretty sure we're toast or close to it against a 4-bet shove.

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That doesn't make a 3bet wrong. If anything, that would be a case for a 3bet.

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the problem is, if we 3-bet and he shoves we are potentially priced in to call, but without knowing villains ranges its a very tough spot.

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His stats are awful, it's not like we're playing against some 20/17/3 tag.

We definitely call a 4bet shove. But the amount of times we take it down with a 3bet + the amount of times villain flat calls our 3bet and bricks the turn with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] are so much greater than the occasional time villain shoves. And even IF he shoves our equity is very good.

Re: KK vs fish, ~190bb deep
 

villain is a station so # of times our 3bet takes it down = 0
villain is a very passive station so the amount of time he raises the naked As = very close to 0

0.84 over a good sample? come on

Re: KK vs fish, ~190bb deep
 

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ok say i call and the turn is the 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. i check and he pots for about 63. easy fold at this point?

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Yes, I think so

Re: KK vs fish, ~190bb deep
 

a fold after his raise is not a bad play, i don't think with his low aggro that he would raise u 4x with just a bare As

Re: KK vs fish, ~190bb deep
 

does the fact that we're 190BB deep override the fact that this is a blind vs blind battle?

Re: KK vs fish, ~190bb deep
 

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does the fact that we're 190BB deep override the fact that this is a blind vs blind battle?

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QFT Can't believe this has only been mentioned now. And ins't .84 not a ridiculous aggro rating for a 50/10?

BvB over pair + second nut flush draw, i'm happy to get more money in on the flop, but if he shoves then that's a nightmare :P