Re: QQ in raised pot
 

Donk turn bet river.

Re: QQ in raised pot
 

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Thinking more about I actually think donking the turn is better. He won't bet overs and he'll call all PPs and turned FDs.

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A-

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how would you make it A+? or is that giving away too much info?

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if we bet turn, we're betting river too. so much value was lost here in checking the turn. a c/r really is bad here without previous hero-villain history

Re: QQ in raised pot
 

And if he raises the turn?

Re: QQ in raised pot
 

fold because he's rarely raising with jj and the like.

i dont mind a turn lead.

Re: QQ in raised pot
 

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Thinking more about I actually think donking the turn is better. He won't bet overs and he'll call all PPs and turned FDs.

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A-

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how would you make it A+? or is that giving away too much info?

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if we bet turn, we're betting river too. so much value was lost here in checking the turn. a c/r really is bad here without previous hero-villain history

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make your posts more like that one [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: QQ in raised pot
 

Can't we all just agree with me at all times? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: QQ in raised pot
 

i really would like to hear your justification for not 3betting pre

Re: QQ in raised pot
 

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fold because he's rarely raising with jj and the like.


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I disagree. QQ is ahead of villain's range, which is going to include a couple smaller pairs and also AK and probably AQs. If we dodge an ace and a king on the flop (which we will most of the time) we can safely assume we're way ahead. We're also going to get mondo payola if we hit our set, especially if villain DOES have AA or KK: he'll often put us on AQ and value bet us until he dies. In fact, if I saw a flop of KQx or AQx I'm donking the flop and hoping for a raise, which I can smooth-call and then follow with a turn CRAI. This will happen often enough to be +EV.

One more thing: after we smooth-call preflop, UTG will be able to easily talk himself into an overcall given the pot's padding and the fact that he's closing the action.

I think this is safely a +EV call. I also like keeping my hand well-hidden against the TAG by the smooth-call.

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i dont mind a turn lead.


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Agreed -- villain seems nitty enough to check behind on the turn, especially with a draw. We don't want to give a free card and we don't mind picking up the pot right now if he's on naked overs. We can also fold to a strong raise, since villain sounds straightforward enough to only make that play with something that beats us.

Re: QQ in raised pot
 

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i really would like to hear your justification for not 3betting pre

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Hero is afraid that villain actually has the goods and is playing QQ for set value.

or

Hero knows that villain won't fold AK and wants to wait for the flop -- he doesn't want to tie himself to the pot with small equity when he can break off a bluff and win good money on a safe flop.

or

Hero doesn't mind an overcall from UTG and wants pot padding.

or

Hero doesn't three-bet light, and if you only three-bet heavy you give away too much information preflop. So Hero has a strategy of NEVER three-betting light, which is perfectly acceptable if you stick to it.

or

Hero knows that villain is a standard TA/LA, tight as a frog's butthole preflop but maniacal postflop, always trying to win every hand he plays and willing to virtually stack off unimproved if he misses. So hero doesn't want to let villain escape cheaply.

or

Hero is mixing up his play so that he has more respect for his preflop overcalls.

or

Any other reasonable explanation.

There are times when smooth-calling QQ preflop OOP in a three-way pot is actually a good play. I'm not sure if this is it, but there are reasons why it might be perfect.

Re: QQ in raised pot
 

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i really would like to hear your justification for not 3betting pre

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Because from playing with the guy I think his raising range is something like 99/88+, AQ+ and if I 3bet he continues with like JJ+, AK. By flatcalling I am able to extract more from the weaker parts of his range (though I admit I may not have done that too optimally here), disguise my hand a little and not put myself up against a range which QQ does not fare well against (and often only puts money in when ahead of me). Anything wrong with this analysis?