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-   -   Street by street vs TerrorOfSweden, EPT Barcelona (Hand w/ masters?) (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=514813)

g-p 10-03-2007 05:08 PM

Re: Street by street vs TerrorOfSweden, EPT Barcelona (Hand w/ masters
 
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I would fold.

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yea, AJ isnt even a made hand! not even sure why you raised to begin with !

Eagles 10-03-2007 05:08 PM

Re: Street by street vs TerrorOfSweden, EPT Barcelona (Hand w/ masters
 
WTF how does terrorofsweeden know our range? Does he have a soulreader?

betgo 10-03-2007 05:14 PM

Re: Street by street vs TerrorOfSweden, EPT Barcelona (Hand w/ masters
 
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I would fold.

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yea, AJ isnt even a made hand! not even sure why you raised to begin with !

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If I raise UTG and get reraised in early position, then I call tighter than if I raised on the button. AJ is an awful hand to play against a reraise, because if you connect, you have no idea where you are.

I know the guy is a LAG, but let him take a small pot early and look for a better situation to make a stand.

Personally, I wouldn't always raise initially AJs UTG with 100xBB no ante, but Ansky plays differently.

mastr 10-03-2007 05:15 PM

Re: Street by street vs TerrorOfSweden, EPT Barcelona (Hand w/ masters
 
i'm actually serious that I don't think we should have raised pre. I think limp is strictly better given ToS at our table. we then get to choose if we want to reraise after TOS's guaranteed raise or call and let him have the lead for the entire hand. Either way it seems much much better then us initially raising

djk123 10-03-2007 05:18 PM

Re: Street by street vs TerrorOfSweden, EPT Barcelona (Hand w/ masters
 
I like a call here with the intention of doing something besides folding on almost all flops. 4 bet is okay only if u think he would 5 bet u light and u are planning on calling a shove.

betgo 10-03-2007 05:31 PM

Re: Street by street vs TerrorOfSweden, EPT Barcelona (Hand w/ masters
 
[ QUOTE ]
i'm actually serious that I don't think we should have raised pre. I think limp is strictly better given ToS at our table. we then get to choose if we want to reraise after TOS's guaranteed raise or call and let him have the lead for the entire hand. Either way it seems much much better then us initially raising

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I like the limp/call or limpreraise assuming TOS raises better here. Also, I would sometimes limp and sometimes raise with AJs UTG in general at this stage of the tournament.

gobboboy 10-03-2007 05:38 PM

Re: Street by street vs TerrorOfSweden, EPT Barcelona (Hand w/ masters
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would fold.

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yea, AJ isnt even a made hand! not even sure why you raised to begin with !

[/ QUOTE ]
If I raise UTG and get reraised in early position, then I call tighter than if I raised on the button. AJ is an awful hand to play against a reraise, because if you connect, you have no idea where you are.

I know the guy is a LAG, but let him take a small pot early and look for a better situation to make a stand.

Personally, I wouldn't always raise initially AJs UTG with 100xBB no ante, but Ansky plays differently.

[/ QUOTE ]

Betgo, you're pretty much thinking on the 2nd level against people thinking on the fifth level. Do you not think that Ansky understands legitimate raising ranges/calling ranges with legitimate people. He's already given you reads for the situation. Not calling with AJs here would be terrible.

Cuts 10-03-2007 05:46 PM

Re: Street by street vs TerrorOfSweden, EPT Barcelona (Hand w/ masters
 
[ QUOTE ]
WTF how does terrorofsweeden know our range? Does he have a soulreader?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really but OP said he views him as tag, so ToS will assume he's on AT+ 88+ and broadway.
Which is true.

Basically here the plan is to bluffcatch him, which includes floating and calling down with one pair type of hands.
Problem is that often lagtards are viewed way crazier than they actually are in big pots. We don't know how crazy he really is, I also play a ton of hands in the first levels of the EPTs but because people are bad postflop and will pay me off big time, I think that's his strategy.

I really wonder what his range is for 3betting a tag utg raiser... With his image he must be aware that we're not going to fold often, still he does it, thinking he can outplay/bully everyone or because he has a legitimate hand?
I hate to say that but ... there will be better spots..

betgo 10-03-2007 05:48 PM

Re: Street by street vs TerrorOfSweden, EPT Barcelona (Hand w/ masters
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would fold.

[/ QUOTE ]
yea, AJ isnt even a made hand! not even sure why you raised to begin with !

[/ QUOTE ]
If I raise UTG and get reraised in early position, then I call tighter than if I raised on the button. AJ is an awful hand to play against a reraise, because if you connect, you have no idea where you are.

I know the guy is a LAG, but let him take a small pot early and look for a better situation to make a stand.

Personally, I wouldn't always raise initially AJs UTG with 100xBB no ante, but Ansky plays differently.

[/ QUOTE ]

Betgo, you're pretty much thinking on the 2nd level against people thinking on the fifth level. Do you not think that Ansky understands legitimate raising ranges/calling ranges with legitimate people. He's already given you reads for the situation. Not calling with AJs here would be terrible.

[/ QUOTE ]
Of course I understand the read. But you have to give some weight to the action of reraising an early position raise in early position. Ansky does not have a loose image, even though villain does. Even a maniac could have a real hand. By calling OOP with this hand, you are putting yourself in a difficult situation.

In general, I would almost always fold AJ raised UTG to a 3rd position raise. I am usually not folding AK, AQ, any pp, or suited connector. I know villain is a LAG etc., but I don't think that makes AJs that much easier to play in this situation.

mastr 10-03-2007 05:48 PM

Re: Street by street vs TerrorOfSweden, EPT Barcelona (Hand w/ masters
 
gobbo, explain reasoning behind raising over limping as our inintial action, I'm extremely extremely curious


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