Re: Vanessa\'s bustout hand
 

we've taken a pretty polarized line by check-calling flop and leading river... either we're very strong and missed our c-r on turn or we're complete air floating... if we were going for thin value we'd probably be better off c-calling river... THEREFORE, I feel that it is incredibly unlikely for us to be bluffed off this river and betting seems the best way to get looked up here vs checking which most people will naturally assume we're some middling 1-pair hand and not try to bluff us off it, thus making it go check-check with a very wide range of his hands

Re: Vanessa\'s bustout hand
 

I don't get why everyone is saying preflop is awful given the pot odds.

Re: Vanessa\'s bustout hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
we've taken a pretty polarized line by check-calling flop and leading river... either we're very strong and missed our c-r on turn or we're complete air floating... if we were going for thin value we'd probably be better off c-calling river... THEREFORE, I feel that it is incredibly unlikely for us to be bluffed off this river and betting seems the best way to get looked up here vs checking which most people will naturally assume we're some middling 1-pair hand and not try to bluff us off it, thus making it go check-check with a very wide range of his hands

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I suppose you're right, it could be better to bet/fold because villain is going to go check-check on all the medium strength hands.

The question is what's villain's range by this point after raising PF, c-betting flop and checking through turn? I think it's very likely he's on some kind of draw or air because a medium pair is going to betting to protect on the turn.

So basically I'm saying that I'm not sure if villain ever has a hand worth calling here, I think villain's range is equally as polarized as ours and in that case you have to be check/calling.

I dunno what's the best, but I think bet/calling is the worst, and I think checking the turn after calling flop is horrible.

Re: Vanessa\'s bustout hand
 

wardekar, I agree with your secondary thoughts about bet/calling and checking turn, but I disagree that his range is that polarized, turn check can mean inf things from pot control to giving up to a decent trap against VR with a monster.

Psyduck, you forget that we're way better then everyone else which answers your question [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Vanessa\'s bustout hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
wardekar, I agree with your secondary thoughts about bet/calling and checking turn, but I disagree that his range is that polarized, turn check can mean inf things from pot control to giving up to a decent trap against VR with a monster.

Psyduck, you forget that we're way better then everyone else which answers your question [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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I'm like one of the biggest proponents to checking through turns in position with medium strength hands and keeping the pot controlled, so it isn't quite as polarized as Vanessa's perhaps, but you said he has air or w/e and plans on giving up? Let me ask you this, if you go check/call, check, check on a board like this, with a pot that size, you're telling me he's not firing river a very large % of the time he has air here?

Re: Vanessa\'s bustout hand
 

not on the T63 rainbow flop

Re: Vanessa\'s bustout hand
 

How the hell do preflop pot odds matter when you are playing a hand that completely depends on flop texture and implied odds? Unless you're planning on making a move on the flop which doesn't seem smart then pot odds don't matter at all when you have a decent amount of money behind.

Re: Vanessa\'s bustout hand
 

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How the hell do preflop pot odds matter when you are playing a hand that completely depends on flop texture and implied odds? Unless you're planning on making a move on the flop which doesn't seem smart then pot odds don't matter at all when you have a decent amount of money behind.

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Your hand isn't that bad to play against almost a random hand from the raiser. Your hand is also hard to read and easy to pure bluff with, since you usually have 6 high.

Re: Vanessa\'s bustout hand
 

i cant believe people are advocating a call oop with 30bb here

flop is fine, but she should bet the turn when it checks through.

Re: Vanessa\'s bustout hand
 

preflop is OK. Post flop also OKish although I like a check raise more here. Turn is horrible. Bet the turn and reevaluate on the river.