Re: 20/40 foxwoods, flop spot
 

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I like a raise.

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a raise says "I have an 8" or "I need to raise to see where I stand" or "I have to protect my hand" - take your pick, you might as well turn your hand over.

Not sure why everyone wants to fold, this is an easy call for me, much easier call than raise.

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Who cares what it says to the rest of the table, I'd like to watch them call 2 cold cold w/a hand like AJ, KJ, JT or some other bs them limped in with that they have 6 outs against us. Whether to raise or fold may not be a clear decision but calling is the worst of the 3 options. Our hand isn't that strong, we'd rather play this hand HU, and there are many hands that will be correct to call for 1 bet that we can fold out. We also might be able to fold out some weaklings w/hand like 99 and better 8s fearing our raise.

If you want to continue with this hand, raise to force out the field and get it HU w/a taggy sb who certianly might have AK. IMO his range is TT+ AK, AQ. The pot is 9sbs when it comes to us, lets play some poker.

Re: 20/40 foxwoods, flop spot
 

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AJ o if we are lucky, I agree. A9s if we are lucky as well. AJs, ATs, all raising. And I do think he is raising 66, 55 if we are lucky.



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I'll buy ATs, but not 55 or 66. Instinctually (and correctly) he should be keeping the pot small with a small pocket pair due to the fact he's almost always going to be in a tough spot on the flop against 2 or 3 other opponents.

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I determined the range vs the SB because its unlikely we will see a caller, and if we do we are done with the hand. If the hand is HU its likely we will win vs a TAG unless he holds AQ, KQ, AA or KK, your hand is going to look like a monster.

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If SB isn't winning with JJ, TT, 99 as well he truly is weak tight.

Now, if your plan is to make a move and raise the turn against SB heads up, we have a whole different discussion going. I don't mind this.

Garland

Re: 20/40 foxwoods, flop spot
 

my first thought for why i don't want to just call is that the two guys behind us could have a lot of combined outs against us that i don't really want them to take one off with. for example one guy with unpaired overs to our hand has 6 outs, some lower pp might take one off for 2 more outs, etc. a really bad scenario like one has kt and one has aj (and we're not behind already to the third guy, obviously), and upwards of 10 cards are bad for us. so i was thinking a raise knocks them out hopefully...?

Re: 20/40 foxwoods, flop spot
 

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who cares what it says to the rest of the table, I'd like to watch them call 2 cold cold w/a hand like AJ, KJ, JT or some other bs them limped in with that they have 6 outs against us.

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Its a live game. Calling with the right image will speak volumes, in a 20/40 game they wont be peeling with ATo, your only speaking to the SB and if anyone else calls you can safely bet your toast if they are even slightly observant. Raising forces you top play a big pot, this is not a big pot hand - you can control the action in this situation by just calling.

- I just looked over the thread, apparently Clark (almost) agrees with me. You guys should re-read what he said, I think his post was better than mine.

Re: 20/40 foxwoods, flop spot
 

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who cares what it says to the rest of the table, I'd like to watch them call 2 cold cold w/a hand like AJ, KJ, JT or some other bs them limped in with that they have 6 outs against us.

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Its a live game. Calling with the right image will speak volumes, in a 20/40 game they wont be peeling with ATo, your only speaking to the SB and if anyone else calls you can safely bet your toast if they are even slightly observant. Raising forces you top play a big pot, this is not a big pot hand - you can control the action in this situation by just calling.


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I disagree w/making this a big pot by raising the flop. I think you actually make it a smaller pot by raising b/c you will likely eliminate everyone but the sb. If you call, you're encouraging others and making it a big pot. PF the pot is already pretty big so if you can shrink down the competition and get it HU against sb, you can ensure that less bets goin on the turn and river.