Re: Miracles in Islam
 

There is a fatal flaw in your comparison of Islam to Christianity luckyme...Obviously you missed the fact that Christians believe Jesus to be the Son of God...and not a prophet...to go from the Son of God to a prophet is a demotion of Jesus...he is central to the Christian faith and his status is immutable...Hence there is no miracling to Islam from Christianity..your argument is both illiterate and false...miracle is not an action verb and Christians cannot demote the Son of God to a prophet...

Re: Miracles in Islam
 

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I miracle to chrisianity, 10 to islam. rinse and repeat.

luckyme

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What is an "I miracle to chrisianity"?

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Is it really necessary to do this every time? It drags down the discussion when it was obvious what his intended meaning was. Notice that no one flamed you for being unable to spell "charade" yesterday.

Also, how could you possibly know that his post up above is backwards if you have never read the book he is talking about and refuse to consider it?

Re: Miracles in Islam
 

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There is a fatal flaw in your comparison of Islam to Christianity luckyme...Obviously you missed the fact that Christians believe Jesus to be the Son of God...and not a prophet...to go from the Son of God to a prophet is a demotion of Jesus...he is central to the Christian faith and his status is immutable...Hence there is no miracling to Islam from Christianity..your argument is both illiterate and false...miracle is not an action verb and Christians cannot demote the Son of God to a prophet...

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Of course they can't. Once they do that, they'd be muslims ( if that was the course they were on).
That's similar to my point that historians that believe the evidence of a miracle-working, son-of-god, ascend-to-heaven jesus must be christians.
Say this historian started out as an agnostic, and came out believing the above ... he'd be a christian, by definition.

Same process happens when a christian converts to islam ( which you seem to think doesn't happen), at some point they realize that Islam is the updated version and they DO understand jesus was actually a prophet. It's silly to think of it as a demotion, he wasn't the son of god at any time, that was a misunderstanding of a figurative portion of god's word, the same way so much of the old testament is understood now.

read twice before answering.

luckyme

Re: Miracles in Islam
 

Tpir and Brad I hope you won't dilute this discussion picking over grammatical usage and spelling errors...Luckyme is trying to assert that Christians and others should be paying attention to Muslim miracles...That is what this thread is about...

Re: Miracles in Islam
 

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Tpir and Brad I hope you won't dilute this discussion picking over grammatical usage and spelling errors...Luckyme is trying to assert that Christians and others should be paying attention to Muslim miracles...That is what this thread is about...

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Agreed and duly noted. It was my intention to nip it in the bud like 20 posts ago but it might end up taking 25 or 30 [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Miracles in Islam
 

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Tpir and Brad I hope you won't dilute this discussion picking over grammatical usage and spelling errors...Luckyme is trying to assert that Christians and others should be paying attention to Muslim miracles...That is what this thread is about...

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That was a quick focus point.
Overall, I'm grappling with why christians, especially those that believe that god is up and about in their lives and sends them 'messages' don't see Islam as the 2nd (3rd is you count the Moses revelations) major revision of god's guidance to mankind.
It seems to fit his past pattern of communication. Maybe he sees that christians have overread the message that the jesus story was meant to illustrate and wants to give them another major nudge along the road.

luckyme

Re: Miracles in Islam
 

You obviously don't know your bible luckyme...
You said: <u>It's silly to think of it as a demotion, he wasn't the son of god at any time, that was a misunderstanding of a figurative portion of god's word, the same way so much of the old testament is understood now</u>

In Matthew 3rd chapter Jesus is baptized by John the Baptist: "As soon as Jesus was baptized, he came up out of the water. Then heaven opened, and he saw God's Spirit coming down on him like a dove. And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love, and I am very pleased with him."-this from the New Century Version of the Extreme Teen Bible... Nothing figurative in this passage...

Re: Miracles in Islam
 

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You obviously don't know your bible luckyme...
You said: <u>It's silly to think of it as a demotion, he wasn't the son of god at any time, that was a misunderstanding of a figurative portion of god's word, the same way so much of the old testament is understood now</u>

In Matthew 3rd chapter Jesus is baptized by John the Baptist: "As soon as Jesus was baptized, he came up out of the water. Then heaven opened, and he saw God's Spirit coming down on him like a dove. And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love, and I am very pleased with him."-this from the New Century Version of the Extreme Teen Bible... Nothing figurative in this passage...

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Seems figurative to me. We are all children of god? Certainly a major prophet would be considered one and be loved and pleasing to god.
All figurative passages have literal version also. There is no passage that cannot be figurative and passages that were once treated as literal are now thought of as figurative.
Christians that convert to Islam see it that way.

luckyme

Re: Miracles in Islam
 

This is another error you are making luckyme...You are constructing your own reality...Christians accept God's explanation...we rely on God not on our own construction...people's constructions are too variable and fallible to be relied on...To be a Christian means to accept the bible as the word of God and accept it...there are often multiple meanings in passages because God can handle complexity...he has built flexibility in the word where it is required to adapt to changing circumstances and inflexibility where inflexibility is required...

Re: Miracles in Islam
 

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This is another error you are making luckyme...You are constructing your own reality...Christians accept God's explanation...we rely on God not on our own construction...people's constructions are too variable and fallible to be relied on...To be a Christian means to accept the bible as the word of God and accept it...there are often multiple meanings in passages because God can handle complexity...he has built flexibility in the word where it is required to adapt to changing circumstances and inflexibility where inflexibility is required...

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You have the misfortune of not being the only christian I know. That leaves you in the awkward position of not being able to make sweeping statements about what christians believe , you can only speak to what you believe.

If you think god is incapable of doing certain things, especially ones similar to what he's done in the past, ok. But it is just one very personal opinion. Other christians may see it in a more open-ended line of possibilities for what god may want to do and how he wants to do it.

luckyme