Re: Mother commits suicide at same spot as her only daughter
 

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jium -

this isn't a [censored] contract. i didn't ask to be born.

just like you can lead a horse to water, you can give a kid life but you can't make him keep it.

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I believe children owe their parents

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that is BS. i didn't ask for [censored] from them and if i want to kill myself i am damn well going to do it.

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I am definitely prejudiced against the girl in the first story. Her immature "grief" about breaking up with some boyfriend is trivial in comparison with a mother's grief for the suicide of her only daughter. The daughter killed herself because of how she felt that day, that week, over something that would pass, a temporary unhappiness, the indulgent heartbreak before she found another boyfriend and moved on. The mother killed herself over something terrible and unremediable: the death of the family's future, the death of hope. The daughter's death was stupid and wrong; the mother's death was, in the proper sense of the word, tragic.

Re: Mother commits suicide at same spot as her only daughter
 

luckyjimm, what you are saying basically is that a parent's life has no self-worth, and it becomes an appendage of the childrens' lives when they are born. A parent is to live vicariously, find happiness and sadness through his children, and when they are gone, her life has no meaning anymore. That's complete [censored].

And don't start me on children owing parents. Do children owe to marry someone they don't love because it will make their domineering control-freak parents happy? Do children owe to take up occupations prescribed by parents? Where does it end? People make a lot of choices that make their family unhappy, that's the chances you take when you procreate.

Some kids just dont come out the way their parents want them to. That doesnt mean parents have any more legit reasons to off themselves than someone who feels so bad about their own lives that they actually do committ suicide successfully, which isnt as easy as you might think.

Re: Mother commits suicide at same spot as her only daughter
 

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I am definitely prejudiced against the girl in the first story. Her immature "grief" about breaking up with some boyfriend is trivial in comparison with a mother's grief for the suicide of her only daughter. The daughter killed herself because of how she felt that day, that week, over something that would pass, a temporary unhappiness, the indulgent heartbreak before she found another boyfriend and moved on. The mother killed herself over something terrible and unremediable: the death of the family's future, the death of hope. The daughter's death was stupid and wrong; the mother's death was, in the proper sense of the word, tragic.

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THis makes no sense. The mother is free to have more kids! Just as the daughters pain was temporary so is the mothers.

analogy time!!


Boyfriend : Daughter :: Daughter : Mother

Re: Mother commits suicide at same spot as her only daughter
 

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And don't start me on children owing parents. Do children owe to marry someone they don't love because it will make their domineering control-freak parents happy? Do children owe to take up occupations prescribed by parents? Where does it end? People make a lot of choices that make their family unhappy, that's the chances you take when you procreate.

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I only said this twice already, let me say it again. This is my view of what a child owes its parents:

"by fulfilling your obligation to yourself to live well, to find whatever your idea is of happiness and obtain for yourself on your own terms the best life possible given the start your parents have given you, you are also implicitly fulfilling your obligation to your parents. You are making the most of the life they have given you, and allowing them to find happiness in your happiness, and pride at your success"

Re: Mother commits suicide at same spot as her only daughter
 

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I am definitely prejudiced against the girl in the first story. Her immature "grief" about breaking up with some boyfriend is trivial in comparison with a mother's grief for the suicide of her only daughter. The daughter killed herself because of how she felt that day, that week, over something that would pass, a temporary unhappiness, the indulgent heartbreak before she found another boyfriend and moved on. The mother killed herself over something terrible and unremediable: the death of the family's future, the death of hope. The daughter's death was stupid and wrong; the mother's death was, in the proper sense of the word, tragic.

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THis makes no sense. The mother is free to have more kids! Just as the daughters pain was temporary so is the mothers.

analogy time!!


Boyfriend : Daughter :: Daughter : Mother

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Too old. And she'd put 20 years of love and support into the life of that selfish girl who killed herself over a boyfriend of, what, a couple of months, at best a couple of years.

Re: Mother commits suicide at same spot as her only daughter
 

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you are also implicitly fulfilling your obligation to your parents

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THis is the part people are arguing against. Why do I have an obligation to my parents for them giving me something I didn't ask for or want?

It's like "Jim, here's a pet dog!!!" Now' you're screwed cause you have to take care of this dog that you didn't want. But i was nice enough to give ti to you so it's your obligation haha.

At least a dog you can give away.

Re: Mother commits suicide at same spot as her only daughter
 

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Too old. And she'd put 20 years of love and support into the life of that selfish girl who killed herself over a boyfriend of, what, a couple of months, at best a couple of years.

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Ok, so what if the girl and boy started dating when they were 10 and broek up when they were 30?

Re: Mother commits suicide at same spot as her only daughter
 

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And don't start me on children owing parents. Do children owe to marry someone they don't love because it will make their domineering control-freak parents happy? Do children owe to take up occupations prescribed by parents? Where does it end? People make a lot of choices that make their family unhappy, that's the chances you take when you procreate.

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I only said this twice already, let me say it again. This is my view of what a child owes its parents:

"by fulfilling your obligation to yourself to live well, to find whatever your idea is of happiness and obtain for yourself on your own terms the best life possible given the start your parents have given you, you are also implicitly fulfilling your obligation to your parents. You are making the most of the life they have given you, and allowing them to find happiness in your happiness, and pride at your success"

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The problem with this quote is that it assumes that "being alive" is the optimum state for everyone.

-McGee

Re: Mother commits suicide at same spot as her only daughter
 

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And don't start me on children owing parents. Do children owe to marry someone they don't love because it will make their domineering control-freak parents happy? Do children owe to take up occupations prescribed by parents? Where does it end? People make a lot of choices that make their family unhappy, that's the chances you take when you procreate.

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I only said this twice already, let me say it again. This is my view of what a child owes its parents:

"by fulfilling your obligation to yourself to live well, to find whatever your idea is of happiness and obtain for yourself on your own terms the best life possible given the start your parents have given you, you are also implicitly fulfilling your obligation to your parents. You are making the most of the life they have given you, and allowing them to find happiness in your happiness, and pride at your success"

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OK, fair enough. However, it's pretty obvious that people who succeed at suicides don't find happiness and don't see a way to obtain happiness in the future. They may be misguided, but that's their perspective. Horrible life <<<<< clean death. And the fact that their death affects lives of others doesnt change that.

Re: Mother commits suicide at same spot as her only daughter
 

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Too old. And she'd put 20 years of love and support into the life of that selfish girl who killed herself over a boyfriend of, what, a couple of months, at best a couple of years.

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You make it sound as if people procreate (with consequential sacrifices and love poured onto the kids) for some noble and unselfish reasons. That's really not the case.