Re: QTs Live
 

I think the turn bet for one BB is good here and you get a free showdown. Had you just checked the turn, SB would probably bet the river and you'd be faced with calling that one BB anyway or folding. I agree, I don't think a value bet is worth it here (even though when she shows her T9, you'll wish you had).

Re: QTs Live
 

credit for what? Theres no point in betting if she has no hand because shes not going to call anyway. For her to call she has to half at least something, and I dont see much something that you'd beat

Re: QTs Live
 

Preflop: Ridiculously standard

Flop: Not sure why you raised here. But what the hell, could slow them down.

Turn: You could take the freebie. Betting isn't terrible since you'd be inducing a bluff on the river if you checked behind. So I think if you're going to call a river bet, you may as well bet here. If you know you're likely behind then check behind and fold on the river UI.

River: Check behind. You're not getting a better hand to fold and there's some missing info:

You say SB: [ QUOTE ]
SB(loose PF and shows down marg stuff)

[/ QUOTE ]

That really doesn't tell us what they get aggressive with. Would this person bet a draw? If not, what types of made hands are they betting on the flop? Would they bet an underpair to the J here?

b

Re: QTs Live
 

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] preflop and I will say it again, if you always took it to 2 bets with suited broadways otb preflop you would not be doing much wrong. Flop raise I really don't understand, we're not getting much value with second pair against that many villains, especially since i do think you have to bet the turn either way but raising walks us into a c/r more often. As played I would check the river.

Re: QTs Live
 

[ QUOTE ]
[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] preflop and I will say it again, if you always took it to 2 bets with suited broadways otb preflop you would not be doing much wrong. Flop raise I really don't understand, we're not getting much value with second pair against that many villains, especially since i do think you have to bet the turn either way but raising walks us into a c/r more often. As played I would check the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think people may be giving the SB too much credit for a possible turn C/R. Loose players who show down marginal stuff usually don't c/r much. Since there was no mention of his range aggression-wise, I'll assume he's on the more passive side. Aggression is usually noteworthy in some way, it wasn't noted here. He very easily could be in call down mode here. I think I'd expect a weak J here at showdown.

b

Re: QTs Live
 

Yeah the c/r isn't that likely, but it is a small consideration and just another argument (of several) for not taking this line.

Re: QTs Live
 

Frond if you check the turn are you calling a river bet?

Re: QTs Live
 

Love the preflop raise as it gives a tight player a looser image. "Illusion of action." Nice. Will pay off down the road.

I'm okay with the raise on the flop. Little money for the benefit of keeping the initiative, and again, that illusion.

Turn check. If anyone calls the flop raise, they probably have you beat and there really isn't any reason to throw more money at them.

River? I can't see a value bet unless you have a very very good read. Only a very small chance you're good, and there is little chance a bluff succeeds because there's only a semantical difference between "shows down marginal stuff" and the traditional CALLING STATION.

But showing you're QTs is going to make people think you're a real action jackson. They'd be wrong, cause you've made a big mistake betting the turn, but no doubt in my mind you'll get it back and more when they call down your KK next time.

(Frond, congrats on moving up to the 8/16. I remember when...)

Re: QTs Live
 

Preflop: Good stuff. You've got a bunch of marginal players limping and you're raising with what could be the best hand, and if it isn't there are a lot of ways for this hand to play well.

Flop: The flop raise is ok. I make this move a lot myself (maybe too much) when I might have the best hand and want to press people a bit and see who might have a strong hand. In this case it might be a marginal move, SB limped in and then bet into the whole field (not to mention the preflop raiser). A huge portion of her range has a J here, and if she's only got a 10 it is likely bigger than yours.

Turn: Once again, I normally bet here, but in this case the check is probably better. Are you folding to a raise here? If you're feeling that your hand might still be best, and you're showdown-bound, a bet/fold here might be an okay line, since a check will cost you the same amount when you get bet into on the river, but will give all the other players a free card to suck out. I think you need to improve to win though, and a free card in this position is basically the best reason for the flop raise.

River: Check. The loading chips thing is a sign of weakness, but it's likely that she only thinks she's losing because of the strength you've shown throughout the hand. A preflop raise, flop raise, turn bet probably has her thinking overpair or better, but she's calling with top pair here a huge percentage of the time.

If she's really weak, bet at her, since it is your best chance at the pot and only needs to work a tiny fraction of the time to be EV+.

Re: QTs Live
 

whoever said that the turn bet isn't going to get anyone to fold must not play live much. Most live low limit players will peel the flop with just about any 2 cards, but will fold to continued aggression on the big bet streets - as obv happened here. I don't think the turn bet is a mistake as you thinned the field which improves your winning chances and your pot equity and gives you a free showdown if your hand doesn't improve. A check on the turn makes your hand look like AK or something else that missed the flop. A check on the turn also gives someone else a free card to complete their straight or 2 pair and makes the river difficult to play. FWIW - assuming you checked the river, I play it the same.