Re: At Work: Women Against Women
 

why is it that whenever a chick walks by that is hot and dressed sexy, all the other women have to remind eachother that she is a whore?

Re: At Work: Women Against Women
 

A few theories/guesses.

1- from birth, men are socialized for competition, and understand that there's a difference between competition and having a slightly adversarial relationship with somebody and just flat hating them. I can compete with another dude and not have it get personal.

2- What Al says.

Re: At Work: Women Against Women
 

I know the popular theory among academia/feminists is that men are socialized to work in teams and women are not, but I'm pretty sure that's just not true. Watch any group of small children, like two or three years-old, and watch how the boys don't really care who they play with, but the girls very early on develop a hierarchy that is exclusionary. There is always an "in" crowd among girls, even at a young age when they couldn't have possibly been taught that behavior. Little girls will tell each other "If you're MY friend, then you can't be HER friend." Little boys almost never do this. They may exclude, but they do so in a different way. In fact, the excluded girls often go and play with the boys, where they are happily accepted.

It's something hardwired into certain girls brains. I don't know what it is, but it's there. Rare is the preschool classroom that doesn't have a Queen Bee.

Re: At Work: Women Against Women
 

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1. I really don't see this sort of behavior in men. Sure, there are alpha males who want other to be submissive to them, but they don't drive out every other guy in the office, not that that would be an option. Guys have a way of doing it that forms a team, some women seem to be lacking in that ability.

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That is probably the key. Imagine alpha male working in an office full of women, when beta male suddenly encroaches on his territory. I don't think his behavior would be any different to an alpha female in an office full of men.

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2. Guys that dominate seem to demand that everyone submit to them. Women rarely demand the men be submissive or disappear, only other women. Why?

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I'm not so sure. My experience with alpha males has been that they are nice as pie around women.

However, I'm not really disagreeing with you on the whole, I just think women v. women, although probably real, is also a pretty small effect and tends to be magnified in men's eyes. I hear it occasionally used to support arguments about the glass ceiling, when there are far more important factors explaining that effect.

Re: At Work: Women Against Women
 

This may be one of those conflicts generated because our culture, technology and civilization have advanced so far, so fast, in relation to our ability to evolve genetically.

Think about Captain Kirk. He doesn't demand anything. He just matter-of-factly says this is what's going to happen, and off everyone goes. There's a certain undefinable element to being a natural leader that is instantly recongnizable and absolutely cannot be learned or coached.

Humans have been evolving within patriach-dominated groups for a million years. It doesn't seem ridculous to assume we would wind up with a natural synergy between our group dynamics and hard-wired individual disposition in which certain males just naturally fall into the alpha role.

Captain Kirk just knows he's going to rise up the ranks, as does everyone around him, so there's no need for him to get nasty or vicious. For everyone else, male or female, it's a struggle where only the strong and cunning survive.

Re: At Work: Women Against Women
 

[ QUOTE ]
I know the popular theory among academia/feminists is that men are socialized to work in teams and women are not, but I'm pretty sure that's just not true. Watch any group of small children, like two or three years-old, and watch how the boys don't really care who they play with, but the girls very early on develop a hierarchy that is exclusionary. There is always an "in" crowd among girls, even at a young age when they couldn't have possibly been taught that behavior. Little girls will tell each other "If you're MY friend, then you can't be HER friend." Little boys almost never do this. They may exclude, but they do so in a different way. In fact, the excluded girls often go and play with the boys, where they are happily accepted.

It's something hardwired into certain girls brains. I don't know what it is, but it's there. Rare is the preschool classroom that doesn't have a Queen Bee.

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In general little girls are always thinking about 3 steps ahead in any social situation. Whereas little boys are completely oblivious to that stuff (and a lot of big boys) but competing in other areas like who can throw a rock the farthest or something.

Re: At Work: Women Against Women
 

I just want to say this is a good thread and I'm disappointed more people (men and women) aren't posting their thoughts.

Re: At Work: Women Against Women
 

[ QUOTE ]
I just want to say this is a good thread and I'm disappointed more people (men and women) aren't posting their thoughts.

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Well, thanks for sharing that, pdb! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Someone will come along and explain this better, but women's way of handling each other at work is really no different than the relationships they have out of work. Only the venue is different. I always say "all women hate all other women", and while clearly an exaggeration, it isn't too far off. Obv the reason for this as has already been stated is viewing other women as their competition, but I don't see this in males whatsoever. After all, there is a reason there's no male version of "Heathers" and no female version of "Swingers".

Re: At Work: Women Against Women
 

I cant take ideas like this seriously because its all based on anecdotal experience.

Is there any scientific data to back the hypothesis?

Re: At Work: Women Against Women
 

This is pretty simple. Men do not compete with eachother because men just fall in line and the lesser males take position under the Alpha males. Generally, two even two alpha males will not challenge eachother and if they think they are equals, they will just act as such.

With women, its all about being competitive.